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[Beginner] Starting Rolls

Discussion in 'Team Guides' started by YellowG, May 7, 2013.

  1. YellowG

    YellowG New Member

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    For those who are having trouble deciding when to stop rerolling, I tried to make the decision-making process easier on you. Just know that this is ALL personal opinion. I will make some changes here and there if the community seems to think otherwise, but regardless of anything I change, what this entire "guide" boils down to is opinion. You will have to evaluate what you want out of the game yourself and make the final decision.

    NOTES: (READ ME!!)
    These suggestions are for FIRST rolls, not for later rolls. Certain monsters will have much greater value when you have teams established, such as Ra, Kirin, and Venus.
    You may or may not end up building your teams around your initial roll, depending on what your next roll(s) are.
    The meta is constantly changing; ratings may drastically change with newer updates.

    On a scale from 1 to 10, where 4+ is good, 6+ is very strong, and 8+ should not be passed up unless you have a specific monster in mind, and 10 would be game-breaking:

    GODS
    GodFest Exclusive (known for impressive awoken skills, arguably the best in the game and great stats. note that you will not be able to use them for quite awhile due to team cost constraints)
    Archangel Metatron: 5.5 (slightly more powerful than Rosekyrie, but a more restricted in taking hits. also takes a ridiculous amount of XP investment to get stats on par)
    Dark Angel Metatron: 7.5 (extremely powerful, but completely REM dependent. awaken skills and skill boosts grant a ton of power with minimal stalling)
    Red Odin: 4 (the same restrictions as Blue Odin. deals absurd damage with his insane ATK and active skill, and also has a farmable heartbreaker for its color)
    Green Odin: 6 (you'll never die, but you'll be grinding for an eternity. solid for Hera and Rainbow Keeper and other normals, especially with strong skill which allows for more reasonable clear times, but gets destroyed by the multihit technicals later on)
    Blue Odin: 4 (decently viable in a mono-blue team, but a God team will not be practical for new players for a very long time. nothing extraordinary given the many higher damage multipliers)
    Red Sonia: 8 (red devils are pretty rare, so you'll be stuck with Hellfire Pyro Demons for a good bit)
    Green Sonia: 6.5 (perfect for dragon teams, but dragon teams in general are a bit lackluster. Dragon Zombie is great for this, though)
    Blue Sonia: 4.5 (no RCV, and physicals in general have low-to-negative RCV, nullifying part of her leader skill essentially, and physicals are quite lackluster anyways)
    Loyal Deity, Guan Yu: 5 (underwhelming leader and active skill, but as usual, solid stats and awakenings)
    Bearded Deity, Guan Yu: 4.5 (same as red with 1 less awakening)
    Sleeping Dragon, Zhuge Liang: 7.5 (his low HP make the 80% threshold easy to hit but not as easy to maintain. green attackers are scarce, however)
    Life Dragon, Zhuge Liang: 6.5 (somewhat reminiscent of pre-buff Light Metatron. a higher multiplier and a pure damage skill make for a lot more burst but a lot less consistency. light and blue are great colors for healers)
    Apocalypse: 6.5 (powerful active skill and leader skill, but attribute colors are somewhat mismatched. not many light dragons to pair with, so active skill is limited in a dragon team. otherwise, very strong overall)
    The Nord Urd: 6.5
    The Nord Verdandi: 6.5
    The Nord Skuld: 8 (better weighting on leader skill, best colors in terms of subs, and an extra awakening to boot)

    Indian
    Shiva: 6 (nice active, good uevo, solid enough pre-uevo as well)
    Lakshmi: 3 (passable leader skill, super long cooldown active for its effect though)
    Parvati: 5 (great active, makes for a good leader and sub)
    Indra: 2 (no appeal whatsoever as a starter, OK damage reduction sub later on, and OK dragon-type leader when ultimate evo-ed)
    Vritra: 2 (rather useeless in current state)
    Krishna: 6.5 (overall solid but not fantastic)
    Sarasvati: 5 (similar to Krishna but with an even less forgiving skill floor. super good in tricolor, though)
    Vishnu: 6.5 (also similar to Krishna, but with a higher floor meaning more consistent damage with a respectable 3.5x)
    Ganesha: 3 (useless as a leader, but fantastic for survival on dungeons with a heavy-hitting boss and status shield)
    Durga: 7.5 (simply ridiculous damage - Kirin with a built in god-enhance. only for those with the skill for 25x, obviously, but also with the ability to gauge whether or not using the active skill will finish the kill. high risk, high reward, definitely very powerful.)

    Japanese
    Kagutsuchi: 2 (E-Z farmbot. great uevo, but that's out of the question for a very, very long time for new players)
    Viper Orochi: 4 (great active on a long cooldown, could be used as a leader post-uevo)
    Susano: 4 (similar to Orochi, but both have somewhat rare mats)
    Amaterasu: 4 (uevo gives her some leader potential past the early-mid game. tough transition to make in between, though)
    Yomi: 4 (relatively bad without proper spike damage team (e.g. Anubis/Ra). when ultimate evolved to D/L, gains phenomenal ATK and good leader potential)
    Ame no Uzume: 4.5 (limited as all >80% HP 3.5x leads are. permanent heal buff is good for maintaining HP threshold)
    Umisachi & Yamasachi: 8 (for the sake of comparison, equal to Kirin. ONLY for experienced players)
    Kushinada: 8 (one of the most forgiving burst leads in the game. skill cap is literally through the roof, although less skilled players will find it tough to execute consistent 7-combos at a minimum to bring her in line with most 3.5x leads. great for beginners as well as experts)
    Izanagi: 4 (an alright skill that strikes synergy with leader skill, but not overwhelming by any means. you probably won't have enough gods, though)
    Okuninushi: 6.5 (versatile but difficult to do consistently. one turn delay is useful but not outstanding. wouldn't keep unless experienced already, but fast learners could manage it)

    Norse (great flexibility, solid leaders and subs at all stages of the game)
    Freyr: 4
    Idunn & Idunna: 6 (good with and without uevo, although they utilize different teams)
    Freyja: 6
    Thor: 4
    Loki: 5

    Greek (all Greek 1.0 are relatively weak until uber uevoed)
    Minerva: 1
    Neptune: 3 (situational sub for high armor dungeons without status shield, doesn't fit on many teams)
    Ceres: 3 (amazing RCV. would not recommend using her unless you have a specific reason to, though)
    Venus: 3 (see Yomi, but usually subbed in healer teams instead)
    Hades: 1 (useless until uevo, which is also a non-issue for new players)
    Ares: 5 (all Greek 2.0 Gods are great subs later and decent leaders early)
    Hermes: 5
    Artemis: 5
    Apollo: 6
    Persephone: 6

    Egyptian
    Horus: 7 (active skill and awakenings are irrelevant most of the time. good power for skill level required, though. might be tough for newbies but not too tough)
    Isis: 7 (works extremely well with almost any team and is incredibly newbie-friendly, tons of damage and covers the hardest color to cover. will eventually hit walls when damage is not enough, much later on)
    Bastet: 8.5 (highly versatile burst damage team which has no risk of being orb-trolled. also fairly newbie-friendly since you still get damage multipliers with lesser comboes. on par if not slightly better with Kushinada, as a 7x combo is usually near the upper limit of people's abilities, making a 4x more consistent with Bastet)
    Ra: 5 (very challenging to pull this one off consistently. ideal late-game leader, not a good leader to get to late-game with. for the player who plans far, far ahead. ONLY for experienced players)
    Anubis: 2 (virtually impossible to consistently manage. ONLY for experienced players)
    Set: 9 (fantastic balance of difficulty, power, and survivability, along with a great active skill)
    Nut: 7 (easy to proc, and a respectable amount of power, but peculiar active skill that isn't the most powerful)
    Osiris: 6.5 (like Nut, but a bit more difficult to consistently achieve)
    Hathor: 8.5 (Kirin with a better active, trading a bit of burst for a bit more survivability)
    Nephthys: 8 (Isis supreme, great active skill as well)

    Angels (excessively grindy)
    Uriel: 3.5
    Gabriel: 3.5
    Michael: 3.5
    Raphael: 3
    Lucifer: 6 (great finisher skill, incredibly strong early on with a simple dub-mythlit/Rainbow keeper team. very grindy, has fallen off with some harder dungeons)

    Chinese (for all but Kirin, excellent spike damage, perfect synergy with active skill, reasonably easy to manage leader skill)
    Incarnation of Suzaku, Leilan: 6.5
    Incarnation of Seiryuu, Karin: 6
    Incarnation of Genbu, Meimei: 7
    Incarnation of Kirin, Sakuya: 8 (marginally more powerful than Horus, with a very relevant 20% gravity skill on a reasonable cooldown. an incredible end-game pick. ONLY for experienced players)
    Incarnation of Byakko, Haku: 8 (arguably the strongest of the Chinese gods due to color advantage, excepting Kirin)

    Heroes (not spectacular due to high probability of not having orbs. the mandatory nature of orb change with the Hero gods limits them pretty severely)
    Yamato Takeru: 5.5
    Andromeda: 5
    Perseus: 5
    Sun Wukong: 5
    Pandora: 6 (better subs available)

    Three Kingdoms (super diverse and hard to generalize)
    Cao Cao: 6 (solid leader skill, very nice active)
    Sun Quan: 7 (leader skill is alright, slightly worse than Valkyrie to me, but the active skill more than compensates. delay and burst damage together is too good to pass up. incredibly powerful with a Blue Valkyrie)
    Liu Bei: 4.5 (nothing outstanding)
    Da Qiao & Xiao Qiao: 9 (insanely powerful for investment. like Horus but better in virtually every way, relatively easy to use as well)
    Lu Bu: 6 (solid leader skill as well, but less valuable active considering you cannot stack them you can't use Baddie)

    DEMONS (lackluster leaders until uevo)
    Belial: 2
    Amon: 2
    Astaroth: 3
    Fallen Angel Lucifer: 4
    Baal: 3 (easy to use, easily replaced)

    BATMAN (on a separate, event only egg machine. no risk of a 3* troll roll)
    Catwoman: 1 (just no)
    Robin: 3 (incredibly hard to make good use of, since 8x is only achieved with a 10 combo)
    Batman+S Glove: 6.5
    Batman+Bat Wing: 6.5
    Batman+Batarang: 6 (team cost of 10 makes him one of the best limited-cost dungeon leaders, for Tengu/Draggie/etc.)

    SANRIO (on a separate, event only egg machine)
    Hello Kitty: 2 (OK leader skill, totally useless for everything else)
    Kerokerokeroppi: 2 (same as Hello Kitty)
    My Melody: 5.5 (a surprisingly viable leader with a great active for green. also great for newbies because of the 3m XP curve)
    Bad Badtz-Maru: 2 (flexible, good low cost lead, but not much else)
    Kuromi: 2 (active skill is very niche, not necessary even without Shiva)
    Angel Cinnamon: 3 (pretty meh as a leader, once again, but a pretty good healer team sub)
    TAMADRApurin: 7 (the best roll of the collab series, IMO, as he's got the most flexible of the 3.5x leader skills with literally no restrictions and a super powerful active skill)
    Princess Valkitty: 4 (very interesting leader skill, but not reliable unless you have a max skilled Gunma)

    PAD Z
    Berserker Z: 2 (underwhelming overall)
    Anima: 4 (slight upgrade to ADK, but red dragons are less prevalent)
    Ur-Chimera: 2
    GrimRock: 2
    Avalon Drake: 5 (amazing active skill with a passable leader skill)
    WoodBahn: 3 (fantastic active skill, not viable as a leader though)
    Radious: 4 (a weak Bastet/Kushinada with a niche active)
    Storm Dragon, Mistrain: 3.5 (see Radious, but with a worse color)
    Dragon Samurai: 1 (weak leader skill, active skill isn't worth the drawback either)
    Cursed Dragon: 5 (solid active and leader skill)

    Ninjas (generally a no-go but by lower standards ninjas are passable)
    Mochizuki Chiyome: 2
    Hatsume no Tsubone: 2
    Sarutobi Sasuke: 2
    Fuma Kotaro: 2
    Hattori Hanzo: 3

    VALKYRIES (most of the appeal of off-color valkyries is as subs; light healer teams are the easiest to assemble and the light valkyrie is the only farmable one. viable but not great)
    Valkyrie: 4
    Lovely Maiden Princess Valkyrie: 3

    JUNK (everything not listed above will most likely be junk. if it's a god and not listed above, though, the guide is most likely out of date)
    Swordsmen
    Fire Dragon Swordsman
    Water Dragon Swordsman
    Shining Dragon Swordsman

    Elementals
    Shaitan, Shaitan the Flame Elemental
    Undine, Undine the Water Elemental
    Sylph, Sylph the Wind Elemental
    Genie, Genie the Light Elemental
    Thanatos, Thanatos the Dark Elemental

    Fairy tales
    Red Riding Hood
    Snow White
    Thumbelina
    Cinderella
    Sleeping Beauty

    Toy dragons
    Drall, Agdrall, Flare Drall
    Shardra, Shardran, Megalodran
    Toytops, Toyceratops, Fortoytops
    Fairlio, Fairlion, Angelion
    Pierdra, Pierdrawn, Drawn Joker

    Late bloom dragons
    Salamander, Ifrit
    Sea Serpent, Leviathan
    Dragonette, Fafnir
    Ivory Dragon, Divinegon
    Basilisk, Tiamat

    Golems
    Flame Golem, Flame Guardian, Flame Mech Warrior Jotunn
    Ice Golem, Ice Guardian, Ice Mech Warrior Midgard
    Earth Golem, Earth Guardian, Wood Mech Warrior Asgard
    Machine Golem, Machine Golem Mk. II, Machine Golem Mk. III
    Dark Golem, Dark Golem Mk. II, Dark Golem Mk. III

    Healers
    Naga, Echidna, Empress of Serpents, Echidna
    Mermaid, Siren, Enchantress of the Sea, Siren
    Dryad, Mandrake, Mystical Forest Pixie, Alraune
    Cupid, Angel, Messenger of God, Archangel
    Succubus, Lilith, Witch of the Night, Lilith

    Riders
    Dino Rider, Dino Rider Drake
    Beast Rider, Beast Rider Merlin
    Marine Rider, Marine Rider Robin
    Dragon Rider, Dragon Rider Arthur
    Gryps Rider, Gryps Rider Finn

    Heart breakers
    Titan, Gigas
    Berserk, Siegfried, the Blue Champion
    Highlander, Cu Chulainn, the Green Lancer
    Vampire, Vampire Lord

    Mystic knights
    Mystic Flame Knight, Phoenix Knight
    Mystic Ice Knight, Fenrir Knight
    Mystic Stone Knight, Dragon Knight
    Mystic Light Knight, Verche
    Mystic Dark Knight, Dark Dragon Knight

    Fruit dragons
    Strawberry Dragon
    Berry Dragon
    Melon Dragon
    Lemon Dragon
    Grape Dragon

    Rippers
    Meteor Volcano Dragon
    Crystal Aurora Dragon
    Graviton Earth Dragon
    Lightning Holy Dragon
    Chaos Devil Dragon

    Wizards
    Fire Wizard, Laila
    Water Wizard, Sharon
    Wood Wizard, Leeza
    Light Wizard, Rei Sirius
    Dark Wizard, Dill Sirius
    Wandering Wizard, Wee Jas
    Drifting Wizard, Wee Jas
    Red Sky Wizard, Chester
    Jester Wizard, Chester

    SUMMARY
    Just remember that rerolling is completely optional; you can play the game just fine regardless of your initial roll. With that said and done... Good luck!
     
  2. YellowG

    YellowG New Member

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    RE: Starting Rolls

    Lemme know if I'm totally wrong. Just wanted to give an updated version of the classic handout for which starter to pick.
     
  3. Cel

    Cel New Member

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    RE: Starting Rolls

    You forgot the elementals:
    Shaitan, Undine, Slyph, Genie, Thanatos.

    and riders, which I don't know by name.
     
  4. withonor

    withonor New Member

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    RE: Starting Rolls

    What a completely impossible, subjective task to take on...

    I got Green Odin on my reroll and I don't regret keeping him what-so-ever. I am building a team around him and do use it from time to time. I just fought a boss in a technical dungeon so long, I used Odin's active ability three times... However, based on my play style, I wish I had Isis. I play a Horus/Rainbow team and Isis is by far my best friendly lead. I wish I had Isis because she is the more consistent choice and I personally have more Horus friends. Probably because the forums tell everyone to do Horus/Horus.

    With an Isis, over a Horus, I could have more flexibility in my team and it would be more forgiving. I know you ranked her a 9, but I would give her a 10. Ares stats overall can make him dominate dungeons solo, but that's what I did with Odin. Isis let's a person not worry about the color of the monsters, just getting a cohesive team with skills that can somewhat blend.

    I also have a much higher opinion of Yomi. Outside a Horus/Ra/Isis team, she probably isn't as valuable, but when you're trying to set up 3x, 4x and 5x, color combo, the extra time is invaluable to overcome terrible RNG. Which does suck, because you're counting on your lead for the multiplier, but your friends can probably back you up.

    But, overall, YellowG, I think this guide would benefit from a summary section very much. Maybe we can identify the list of starters that make the beginning easy, and a section where people who think long term might appreciate. List the 6+ stuff. 6-7, do a tiny bit of research, 8-9, strongly consider, and 10, don't pass this up. Usefulness and rarity should be taken into account as much as anything.

    I know I would have appreciated this type of information.
     
  5. Cel

    Cel New Member

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    RE: Starting Rolls

    I'm biased towards light, but to me the cutoff is at 5* and higher is fine to start with (which is Apollo). I think descriptions are nice, but they do take quite a bit of effort, but I'm glad we at least have a mini-guide here, until details get filled in.
     
  6. YellowG

    YellowG New Member

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    RE: Starting Rolls

    Hence the disclaimer. :p I'll write a summary.
     
  7. atog

    atog New Member

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    RE: Starting Rolls

    Anubis is pretty cool in tricolor (all these ancient dragon and weekend dungeon) I think he might worth more than 1* lol

    Too bad I don't have one, But I have tried pulling 25x with ADK (i would say around 30~50% of the time!)
    I love keeping one or two Anubis as friends.
    And probably the only ever chance you might get 100x (with double Anubis). The high x is worth a nod.
     
  8. Kilgarrah

    Kilgarrah New Member

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    RE: Starting Rolls

    Gold color is not so good for reading. Change to orange?
     
  9. Trix

    Trix New Member

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    Well done YellowG!

    I moved the thread to where it is supposed to be.

    And yes, I agree with Kilgarrah. It's not like we hate light. It kinda hurts in the eye.
     
  10. francon

    francon New Member

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    RE: Starting Rolls

    I am running Isis myself (first pull) but I am not sure if I would give her a ten. My impression is that I'll probably be needing an Orochi for the late game dungeons - 5 free attacks with 16x multiplier is much better compared to 3 free attacks (naga) with 9x-12x multiplier. And I don't want to do 100 REM pulls just for Orochi.

    That said, running normal/technicals with Isis has been a breeze for me so far :)
     
  11. YellowG

    YellowG New Member

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    Orochi is great for late game dungeons, but he's by no means mandatory. He might save a few stones on Zeus, but Echidna does the job just fine, and she's farmable.

    Isis doesn't hit any damage-walls like ADK for quite a long time; at that point, though, Odin/resolve for normals or spike damage (2x Horus/Ra) becomes pretty much mandatory.
     
  12. Kiyo

    Kiyo Ye-yo, Ye-yo... Mula la~

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    Freyr, I&I, Freyja should all be 8 stars. They do the EXACT same thing for their respective colors. Loki should be 6/7 stars since Dark is still harder to level than any RBG monster.

    Ares, Hermes, & Artemis should all be 8 stars just like the Norse Gods. They are the second half of the 4/2/2 format. Apollo can stay at 5 since light is hard to level but Persephone should be 6/7 mirroring Loki.

    If Shiva is 9 stars then Parvati should be too. However I'd consider both 7/8 anyway. Lakshmi should be 6/7. Her active ability may suck but she still has the same leader skill as the other RBG Indians. She still makes a good, albeit, least desirable leader. Indra should be 2 like Vritra. Both are equally...

    Bastet should be 7 stars, Ra & Anubis at least 3. Making them the same as Minerva is just...

    I agree more or less with most of the others.
     
  13. MisterDrgn

    MisterDrgn Slumbering Zeus Staff Member

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    Richard, I appreciate your doing this, but obviously there is gonna be a lot of disagreement. I've been thinking for a while that it would be nice to put up a list of all rares in the REM and let people vote on them (with some restrictions on who could vote, e.g., people with at least X posts and anyone a mod will vouch for, where X=250??). That way we can at least reach a forum consensus, even if this remains subjective and situational.

    How do you feel about that? I don't want to walk over your work, since you've obviously put thought into this. I'd be happy to run the survey and compile results--getting averages but also noting cases where there's widespread disagreement--but I'd like to get your thoughts on this.
     
  14. YellowG

    YellowG New Member

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    I put Freyja/I&I lower simply because what I stuck in the notes, that their heart-breakers aren't easily farmable. I only value Shiva and Parvati so highly because of their skills anyways.

    I put Ra and Anubis so low because they're simply horrid to start with. This is a first-roll thing, so I'd think that Minerva's resist and nuke might actually be more useful than some 10x combo leader skill that no new player will ever be able to pull off intentionally. Later rolls, Anubis and Ra are certainly more useful, but they're not good starters by any means.
     
  15. YellowG

    YellowG New Member

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    Sounds good to me. I'm curious to see what people think. I'm making adjustments where I see fit at the moment, but that would probably be better.
     
  16. OrangePeelPanda

    OrangePeelPanda New Member

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    I really REALLY wish I had known about rerolling and all that before I did IAP and got fairly far into the game.

    I actually started with a Naga- and thought it was amazing...too bad now though :(
     
  17. jaye3rd89

    jaye3rd89 New Member

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    Guess I should reroll since i got a kagutsuchi? Or just roll with it? lol
     
  18. 38thdoe

    38thdoe New Member

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    I started with Kagutuschi. If he came level 30, he's okay enough to carry you till your next 5 stone roll. If you get crap there, reroll. Kagutsuchi is nice for flying through the early levels when you come back for evo materials.
     
  19. jaye3rd89

    jaye3rd89 New Member

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    Indeed he is 30.

    I may have misunderstood what you meant there.
    Did you mean reroll if:
    1. He wasn't 30 ?
    Or
    2. He is 30 but my next rare egg once i obtain 5 more ms ends up being bad?


    Edit:
    Well i was bored to went with Kagutsuchi (for now)
    Waited till i got 5 more stones and tried again...and got a drall....

    Should i keep going or reroll? lol
     
  20. YellowG

    YellowG New Member

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    Kagutsuchi, to me, is a farmbot. If you're incredibly lazy, he does easy dungeons for you, but he won't help you at all when dungeons get harder. I would reroll, but there's a whole new discussion thread up in which we're trying to come up with a consensus.
     

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