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[Dungeon] Heroes Descended - Discussion

Discussion in 'Tips, Tricks, and Dungeon Strategies' started by zgmfx09a, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. zgmfx09a

    zgmfx09a New Member

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    =====================================================
    NOTE: I've merged the two strategy threads for the Two Heroes dungeon. The first post contains zgmfx09a's original guide. This is followed by TheTeacher's guide and general strategy discussion. See also Fluffles' excellent list of dungeon playthrough videos with different teams: LINK

    --MisterDrgn
    ======================================================

    2 Heroes is the next set of Hell difficulty dungeon after Hera, where you'll be able to get either Berserker or Highlander as a definite drop for your trouble.

    There are lots of ways to go about clearing it, but I'll be talking about 2 teams that are relatively easy to get with a high success rate along with the least stones required. If you play it right, you'll actually require zero for them.

    Dungeon data: http://zh.pad.wikia.com/wiki/勇者降臨!
    http://www.puzzledragonx.com/en/mission.asp?m=269


    1.) Quadruple resist team

    Requirements: Abyss Neptune or Toy Grass Dragon, HP > 12780, max skilled Siren
    Aim: 50% dark resist, 75% water resist, 50% grass resist + poison for the stall damage
    Team setup:
    [​IMG]
    Or
    [​IMG]

    Basically, this setup is to stall and deal damage via poison and your normal attacks. The second team is much safer thanks to 3 monsters that can spawn recovery orbs, but not everyone may have the Parvati. The first team is easier to get in contrast, but lacks the recovery (so you'll have to chain higher combos to heal and etc).

    The first stage is the hardest to fight, so depending on the initial orbs given to you, you may need anywhere between 0 to 2 stones to clear the stage. If you play carefully, this stage should be the only stage where you require stones (unless you're careless...... like me).

    The sequence of devils that you should be aiming for is Light -> Fire -> Water/Dark -> Grass. Light because she deals full damage but your Dark monsters deal 2x damage to her. Fire next since she deals full damage as well. Grass is weak to none of your monsters and actually resist Neptune, so he's the best option for you to begin charging up your skills. Make sure Neptune has his poison up.

    Stage two, release the poison and you're set. If not, you'll have to kill them manually quickly. Aim for Fire/Light first since they are not resisted, leave Water for last.

    Stage three, should be an easy stage, but get your Rainbow Keeper's skill ready if you do not manage to OHKO in time (which I forgot, so I spent a stone here......). Charge up your skills as usual.

    Stage four is the hardest stage, and the reason why you need more than 12870 HP. Activate poison and slowly tank your way through with poison and recovery. Important thing to note are the two magical numbers: 12870 and 8520 - 3 simultaneous strikes and 2 simultaneous strikes from the Vampire Lords after resist. Depending on the CD distribution, you'll usually have to face either one of the two. Make sure you have enough HP to tank through it, or else it's time to activate Rainbow Keeper's skill.

    Stage 5, pretty similar to stage 4. Poison and aim for the Berserker, and let the poison damage do its job on the Highlander. Magic number here is 6377 (2 simultaneous strikes), so again, make sure you have enough HP (which I had forgotten at one point of time, so another stone spent......). After that, all that's left is to hope for the correct egg drop. I'd say anything less than 5 stones spent on this dungeon is great. Of course, you should aim to restrict yourself to below 2, and if possible 0.



    2.) Dark 4x team

    Requirements: Loki + Vampire Lord as leaders, HP > 14085 (to tank a hit of Berserker), dark damage recommended to be 5000+ total, recovery recommended to be at least 1500 with single Loki
    Aim: Burst damage to the Vamp Lords stage, OHKO Highlander and play a stalling game with Berserker
    Team setup:
    [​IMG]

    Stage one, try not to overkill, and make sure you leave enough devils to store your skills. Vamp Lord and Mystic Swordsman's skill should be up.

    Stage two, three waves of AOE is enough to clear the stage. If you want to charge skills, then plan your attacks accordingly.

    Stage three, a place for you to charge your skills. Make sure you have all the skills up (except Hera's if you do not want to) and ready for the Vampire Lord.

    Stage four, very dangerous stage. Activate Loki and the gem conversions to AOE them down to about half. With two Rainbow Keepers around, you'll have to make sure you whittle down at least 1 Vamp Lord, and the other two should not be attacking on the same turn. If you are unlucky enough to get a situation where all three are attacking at the same turn, then it's 2 Vamp Lords down within six turns. Charge up all your skills this time round.

    Stage five, start off with Giga Gravity. Then do the orbs conversions + Loki and try to chain as much combos as you can at the Highlander. You should OHKO him, or else you're screwed. All that's left is to slowly whittle out Berserker's HP.

    That's all. I'll do a guide on Zeus after I am done clearing him.
     
  2. TheTeacher

    TheTeacher BRB Arena Mode Bawss Staff Member

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    Heroes Descended - Double Dual Resist Guide

    This thread is dedicated to discussing possible strategies and tactics for the Two Heroes dungeon, as well as clearly outlining statistics for the encounters within.

    Statistics:
    Heroes Descended features 5 floors of battles, the last stage being: Berserk #221 and Highlander #223.

    Stage 1: 5 Devils (~3.6k damage every turn, 1400 defense, 19-19.8k HP) All colors.

    Stage 2: 4 Divine Masks (9,999 damage every 6 turns, 60,000 defense, 18 HP) 4 of the 5 colors.

    Stage 3: 4 Knights (from 4.9k to 5.4k damage every 2 turns, 270 defense, ~25k HP) 4 of the 5 colors.

    Stage 4: Triple Vampires (8,520 damage every 3 turns, 700 defense, 602,100 HP)

    Stage 5, Bosses: Berserk (14,085 damage every 3 turns, 64 defense, 1,117,077 HP)
    Highlander (5,710 damage every turn, 16,500 defense, 372,633 HP)

    Link to the dungeon stats at the PND database in English
    -->http://www.puzzledragonx.com/en/dungeon.asp?d=71
     
  3. TheTeacher

    TheTeacher BRB Arena Mode Bawss Staff Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    And now, to the real meat of the thread; discussion!

    I can see 2 Heroes being zergable with a strong damage team, such as 16x Horus/Horus, or some combination of ADK, Isis, Horus, Ra, or Bastet leaders and the appropriate team members. However, unless perfect gameplay is achieved, you will likely spend stones accomplishing this, due to the HP pools of the stage four Vampires and the HP pool and defense of Berserk and Highlander, respectively.

    I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying unless you're willing to throw stones at the dungeon, there's probably a better way.

    Using resists would make the dungeon slower, but safer!

    With Rainbow Devils, Knights, and Masks, using Odin would be difficult and overly painful, unless partnered with an exception nuke team. The easiest solution would be to utilize Toy Dragons, resist rippers, and Neptune.

    The HP threshholds are as follows:

    With 50% wood/50% dark/75% water, such as Fortoytops/Abyss Neptune or Fortoytops/Drawn Joker, Berserk would hit you for 3,522 every 3 turns; Highlander would hit for 2,855 every turn, and the Vampires, the real threat of the dungeon, would hit for 4,260 every three turns.

    Since Berserk and Highlander syncing would total out to 6,377 damage, the minimum HP threshold for surviving the boss stage is 6,400 HP+.

    However, we must also consider the Vampire stage. Since there are always three and they often sync, there's a few situations to consider.
    1. No Vampires sync, and they attack consecutively, dealing 4,260 damage.
    2. Two Vampires sync timers, and they attack together for a total of 8,520 damage in one turn.
    3. All the Vampires sync (worst-case), and they strike together for 12,780 damage in one turn.

    Now, the first case is obviously pretty easy to handle. Make some attacks and include some heart orbs in your combo every turn. You have a large safety cushion, but need to heal every (or every other) turn.

    The second case is probably more likely than the other two, based on previous appearances by this dungeon. In this case, you need a minimum health pool of 8,600 HP to survive the sync'd Vampires. And you need to keep in mind, either directly before them or directly after, there will be a third Vampire striking for 4,260 damage. So, a minimum of 9,000 is far safer, especially if one can bring heal orb changers like Siren/Toys. In this case, it would be necessary to heal up above 4,260 after being struck by the sync'd Vamps, or above 8,600 after being struck by the single Vampire.

    The third case is pretty much a nightmare scenario. The minimum HP threshold here is 12,800 HP, since all Vampires will attack together. While you get two turns to heal up, that's a lot of HP to recover without an autohealer leader, and it might be extremely difficult to actually do. Should this situation come up, and you're unwilling to spend extra stones to clear, it may be best to back out of the dungeon, use a stone to refresh stamina, and try again. If not, pick one Vampire and focus everything you have on it. Nuke it down, and the fight becomes significantly easier.

    The Devils in round one are going to be challenging, but the best way to deal with them is to focus your member's types on weakness and blow one or two up with a large combo. On the next one, heal as much as possible, and try to kill a second devil. This first stage will be very challenging due to lacking any skills charged at all, and a max skill Siren could be very beneficial here.

    Absolutely stall on the last/two devils and charge your skills, poison and Ripper namely!

    The second stage Divine Masks are threatening, for sure. They hit for almost 10k health consistently every 6 turns, and represent a difficult wall to overcome. Without poison, the best way would be to set up 5 orb combos for multiple monsters, resulting in damage across all masks. That said, you would have to get all six monsters to aoe for three turns to kill all the masks. Since they're on a six-turn interval, this would be extremely challenging without orb changers, and they may not be the most efficient things to bring on a safe Two Heroes run.

    Instead, I recommend popping poison on Masks just before one would attack and kill you. Poison is not necessary against the Knights or Vampires, and you'll have time to charge it up again before the boss stage. Alternatively, you could leave the water mask for last, since you might have 75% resist to it, and focus on killing the fire and light masks with aoe/targeted attacks. Wood and Dark would still hit for 5,000 damage, so synced masks might kill you. Off sync would require taking a hit and killing one before it hits you. Armor void like Shiva would also work well, allowing you to take out a number of masks before they attacked, leaving only one or none.

    For the Knights stage, I recommend using your 20k Ripper to bring them all low on health (they should have from 3k to 5k left) and then killing them off in resist order, making sure you charge your skills. Using a mech dragon would kill them outright and leave you without a ripper ready to go on the vampires, but again; it's your party, not mine.

    Finally, made it to the bosses! I recommend popping poison and focusing down Berserk first, due to Highlander's defense reducing most of your damage to 1. Poison will chip away at Highlander, and you only need to be careful every three turns, when Berserk and Highlander sync timers. On those turns, you'll need to be above 6,377 HP. Otherwise, keep healing when you can and damage away!
     
  4. TheTeacher

    TheTeacher BRB Arena Mode Bawss Staff Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    My suggestion for teams is as follows;

    Fortoytops; Rainbow Keeper, Ripper of choice, Lilith (if not using Neptune), and some choice of utility, maybe a second ripper to help clear Vampires quicker, perhaps a Gravity user like Hera, or Echidna/Orochi for that life-saving time cushion, or a Siren to manufacture more heals separate from your Toy dragon lead.
    This team would be best complemented by a dark resist leader, such as Abyss Neptune or Drawn Joker. Neptune also has poison, allowing you to bring a replacement for Lilith.

    Drawn Joker could be substituted as a leader, and partnered with a friend's Fortoytops, but bringing a Lilith would be necessary to kill Highlander in a timely fashion (helps on Masks, too!).

    My personal setup for next week:
    Fortoytops Leader (evolving him tomorrow, provided I can make it to those Technicals in time!)
    Rainbow Keeper
    Lightning Holy Dragon (extra umph for Vampires, can bring all Knights to within a few thousand HP of death in one shot)
    Awoken Hera (G-G-G-Gravity to the face, Vampires/Berserk; also, her stats are good at her level right now)
    Echidna the Red Empress (I might need her, playing it safe this way)
    My health with this team will be around 8.6k, and factoring in the roughly 2k I'll get from a friend's Abyss Neptune, I'll have plenty of health to pass the HP checks. Might consider swapping Echidna for Siren, for two heal changers.

    Should I be unable to evolve Toyceratops in time, I'll be using my Drawn Joker instead, and substitute my Lilith, With of the Night for Echidna. I can break 9000 base health, and add a friend's Fortoytops to that. With double Toy dragons, I don't think I'd bring my Siren, due to needing poison and having two heal changers already. On the Fort/Nep team, I might consider swapping Echidna for Siren for a second orb changer.

    That's all for now, feel free to post here with information you know that I don't, or other suggestions for teams and strategies!

    Thanks for reading!
     
  5. darrenalilim

    darrenalilim New Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    Only 4 of the 5 Masks and Knights are chosen for Wave 2 and 3.
     
  6. TheTeacher

    TheTeacher BRB Arena Mode Bawss Staff Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    Great to know, thanks darren. Updating!
     
  7. darrenalilim

    darrenalilim New Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    Dayum, these walls of text will be very helpful. Thanks!
     
  8. TheTeacher

    TheTeacher BRB Arena Mode Bawss Staff Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    I thought the same thing, that's why I did 3 posts instead of one =\

    Curse me and my excessive eloquence!
     
  9. fowayne

    fowayne New Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    can check if the 2 bosses will sync together every 3 turns or 4 turns?
     
  10. Fluffles

    Fluffles Radio-Reactive Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    Bosses will sync together every 3 turns, you have Highlander hitting you every single turn and Berserk every 3.

    This is my set up since I'm worried about healing back up :blush:

    Best case scenario for me would be if all 3 vampires are in sync, I take 1-2 turns to heal back and then pop valkyrie if there are extra heal orbs left. It will be a little slow when grinding Berserk down, but there probably won't be any threatening situations. Might switch out Bastet or Valkyrie out for a Light Mech though, but my RCV will drop to 1.5k.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. TheTeacher

    TheTeacher BRB Arena Mode Bawss Staff Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    That's a great team, Fluffles. Yeah, you're stacked on RCV and health, looks very safe.

    Bastet is an interesting choice, but she does make sense for her RCV stat. That active skill doesn't hurt either; free AoE every 13 turns.

    Oops, typed that wrong. Thanks!
     
  12. Ed unique ID

    Ed unique ID New Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    Thanks for the detailed thread and discussion. As I read it, the standard approach is to use 2 dual-resist leaders for 50%/50%/75% wood/dark/water. That means you need a dual-resist and a friend with the complimentary one. Is there a list of all the dual-resist monsters? I don't have any of them, so I'll have to pass this time around. :(

    Alternatively, if you have an insanely powerful team and/or matching skills, you could try to zerg it. That's out of reach of most of us.

    Also, I'd like to add that there's a big poison damage difference between Abyss Neptune and Lilith Witch. If you decide to stack resists with Fortoytops and Drawn Joker, and rely on a level-99 Lilith to slowly poison Highlander, then it will take 372633/1088 = 343 turns. With a level-99 Abyss Neptune, it's only 52 turns.
     
  13. Trix

    Trix New Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    Thanks for the thread, and nice write up TheTeacher!

    I plan to evolve my Ceres to Fertility Deity Ceres then busty-evo it to Wood/Dark Ceres by 2 Heroes' arrival. (Damn it, I have to farm two Wood Keepers in order to evolve my Ceres, and with that said, I have to wait until Tuesday!)

    Right, I plan to have Dark Ceres as my leader (I don't have Fortoytops) so here's the lineup on my mind that I would use.

    Leader: Fertility Deity Devil Ceres
    Subs: Rainbow Keeper, Siren Enchantress (max skill), LHD, (undecided spot)
    Helper: Sea Deity Abyss Neptune

    Yeah, I'm aware that the triple Vampire can be hazardous, so I thought of reinforcing dark resistance. Henceforth, I get 75% dark damage resistance and 50% water and wood damage resistance.

    The "undecided spot," well, I'm debating on my own whether I should throw in Rainbow Keeper, Awoken Odin, or a second Siren (max skill but not Enchantress yet). But I really think, in this dungeon, health pool should be prioritized more than the extent of healing back up, or perhaps both should be prioritized.

    And also, I read about getting rid of Berserk first than Highlander, while I think Highlander should be gotten rid of first because of its nimble attacks and high armor. Neptune's poison absolutely comes in handy in this situation. So I just would like to hear "why Berserk first before Highlander" Berserk assaults every 3 turns passed, and should you be in critical point, 3 turns is an enough span to heal back up just in case.

    That's it for now. Just sharing my thoughts and opinions. I will be delighted to learn something new I haven't known yet about 2 Heroes!
     
  14. TheTeacher

    TheTeacher BRB Arena Mode Bawss Staff Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    Well Xirtas, I'd recommend the Rainbow Keeper for your team; that 50% damage for three turns can potentially absorb all of the Vampire's attacks once. Also helps if you end up between heals and skills before one dies.

    As far as Berserk first, if you don't have 75% water resist, he still hits shockingly hard, often over half your health pool. On a synced turn with Highlander, he becomes quite dangerous. Highlander's attacks are easy to heal through, but his defense makes blowing him up rather difficult without a massive orb Combo + Shiva. Berserk has no armor to speak of, just lots of health, and dropping him makes for no synced attacks to heal through.

    Edit: oops, with one Keeper you should be pretty safe, provided you meet the health checkpoints. A second Siren isn't necessary with Ceres lead, so second Keeper for reduction/big health, or another ripper or orb changer for damage, or Echidna for that slowdown.
     
  15. unamsaying

    unamsaying New Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    im tryna do it with this party.

    http://puzzleanddragonsforum.com/showthread.php?tid=4423

    not sure if it's good enuff :/ maybe i should change the friend to G.Parvati for more heals.

    its 3200 heals w/ Artemis, 5000 w/ Parvati
     
  16. Fluffles

    Fluffles Radio-Reactive Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    Berserk before Highlander is only for people running mono-green, because they have to heal back full damage. There's no way for a dual-resist team to take Berserk down that fast anyway lol
    In the end though the only thing you can do damage to is Berserk because of Highlander's 16k defense
     
  17. TheTeacher

    TheTeacher BRB Arena Mode Bawss Staff Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    Posted on it.
     
  18. Rin

    Rin New Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    Would a Drawn Joker/Abyss Neptune for 75% water/dark work? Team is going to be Drawn Joker, Max skill/lvl siren, Wood Mech Asgard, Echidna, KR. and friend Abyss Neptune. Not including Neptune I have just over 11k hp. Would this team work?
     
  19. TheTeacher

    TheTeacher BRB Arena Mode Bawss Staff Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    Yeah, it could work, but any wood masks, devils, or knights are going to hurt, plus Highlander will beat on you for 5k+ every turn. Painful and unnecessary, in my opinion. You could use a decently leveled Graviton Earth Dragon as your lead instead for a slightly safer run. If you don't have one, then you're going to need to burn down Highlander first (difficult through his 16000+ defense), or just risk face tanking him the whole time.
    Risky, in my opinion. Be prepared to spend stones.
     
  20. Aaronitis

    Aaronitis Member

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    RE: Heroes Descended - Stats and Discussion

    First, thanks to The Teacher for this.

    Fluffles, are you nervous about the knights or any of the first stages with no ripper or mech? I'm running a team with similar stats, and after reading the strat guide here, I'm a little worried I won't have the fire power for round 3 in particular.
     

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