[Team Building] Jammer & Poison Appreciation Thread

Discussion in 'Team Guides' started by kiarahakura, Aug 15, 2016.

  1. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

    Messages:
    1,326
    Likes Received:
    1,190
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    User ID:
    311 462 320
    PADherder:
    link
    When paired with a Fenrir friend you already have 3 jammer creation actives to use. Since Fenrir is on a 5 turn cooldown and gives a 1 turn skyfall then most of the time those 3 is all you need. However I could see having another Fenrir being nice to have in a few situations.

    TL;DR: For almost all cases, you only need to own two dark Fenrir. However 3 could be seen as a luxury for certain dungeons or setups.

    Also since Fenrir has a low cooldown and very good ATK stats and awakenings, you could also SI something else onto him and put him in another dark/devil team for damage output. :)
     
  2. Efreet

    Efreet Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    117
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    User ID:
    302 818 310
    PADherder:
    link
    Pulled a dupe DFenrir a while ago so i now have the base for a usable team.
    Fenrir/Fenrir/Jormu/A.Ama/ ? ? currently wondering what to use in the last slot, i'm super worried about having low hp with such a shitty rcv.

    @Zaku , free up some friend slot so i can send you a friend request, i would love to have a few ppl who keep D. Fenrir on #1.
     
  3. Zaku

    Zaku Delete Kirin off your friendlists

    Messages:
    1,433
    Likes Received:
    1,320
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2013
    PADherder:
    link
    I deleted a few kirins for you
     
  4. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    177
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    User ID:
    392-495-249
    PADherder:
    link
    IMG_0010.jpg IMG_0008.jpg
    Whew! Hypermaxed Another Geist and getting ready to hypermax the rest. Luckily, I pulled HRozuel who looks to be an excellent sub for AGeist. I wish I got HAlraune but it looks to me HRozuel is the next best thing, or maybe even better considering those TPAs.

    After reviewing and playing a bit with my recently hypermaxed Hel, I noticed the build on the OP for Hel's Arena run and it got me thinking if double Z8 would be useful for AGeist. While AGeist is not a heart maker "like" Hel, I think those hastes could be very handy in a haste heavy team. The team above is what I am going to be trying out though I do need to work on inherits a bit. I am going to start farming a second Z8 probably next week and give an update on how that team flows. For a specific team:
    AGeist / Z8 / Z8 / Jize / HRozuel / AGeist
    Jize can be replaced with Viz. If you have Fenrir, this could work, too. (I need to get my Fenrir skilled to test out how he works in these teams) HRozuel can be replaced with a bind clear option/whatever flex use you may need, like Sleeping Beauty, Okuni, and others. You are losing out on a lot of damage if you are subbing Jize out and he works great as an inherit base.

    If anyone is interested in playing AGeist, feel free to contact me. I probably will not have a lot of opportunities to try him him with another AGeist lead, but my guess is I will be using Viz friend as a substitute. We will see how that goes.
     
    kiarahakura likes this.
  5. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

    Messages:
    1,326
    Likes Received:
    1,190
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    User ID:
    311 462 320
    PADherder:
    link
    Let me know the outcome of this new team. :) Since this one I might actually be able to build and try as well. :D
     
  6. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    177
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    User ID:
    392-495-249
    PADherder:
    link
    IMG_0021.jpg IMG_0022.jpg
    Two runs using AGeist in extreme endless corridors. First run ended on Gronia and also involved needing to stall against two dark absorb enemies (very minor). Died on Gronia due to lack of dark orbs :/

    Second run went really smoothly. Got to floor 29 in about 10 minutes! Artemis showed up with the jammer skyfalls which helped me to save on Viz usage. Stalled on Zaerog until the last turn of the dark absorb but he hit me for 34k. Sounds like AGeist needs a shield for those hard hitters. If Zaerog got the light absorb, I can definitely clear Extreme, which makes me really happy! Just wish I had a shield inherit now.


    SI----------------------------------------------

    Viz friend is an excellent partner. The 1.5x RCV really helps when you need to stall on minor hitting floors and helps when you need to do a giant heal involving an active.

    I do think a good set up involves 2 Jize for the sake of SI choices and powerful 2TPAs, though the extra haste using a second Z8 sounds really nice. I have yet to inherit my Viz onto Jize so there is still much to play around with. Surprisingly, I did not use Jize as much as I thought I would. My previous advice of using two Jize for stalling is totally unnecessary since most situations you will either OTK or tank at least one hit with the awesome HP.

    Pandora sub is largely useless, I realized. The haste is nice if you need to get Viz up for in need of hearts and need to burst on the same turn (very rare for the runs I did). APanda can be replaced for utility. Fenrir would be a great sub for the 3 jammers and 3 darks (definitely need to get mine ready as soon as possible).

    I did not use HRozuel much either and i think APanda SI is a good upgrade. Other utility options are definitely a good idea.

    Z8 is absolutely fundamental. The haste and dark skyfall is excellent for the team. Great overall stats, Devil typing and awakenings further solidify his position.

    AGeist active was not used very much. I think the fact I used a Viz friend meant a fast and reliable source of jammers with a 2-turn haste as back up if I wound up needing to use too many actives. This makes me think I can inherit an important ability onto AGeist, like a shield or even a damage boost.

    If I had to describe the way I played, I used most of my dark orbs on every board and cleared as many other colors I could. Jammers were interesting. I often tried to save anywhere between 4-6 jammers orbs somewhere on the board to burst with the next turn. Because AGeist is on such a long CD, I view his actives more for the 2-turn haste or emergency jammers if I really need them. The 4-6 saved jammers can be used in lieu of an active, but with 4 sub actives to choose from, you can often get the 2.5x ATK, but it is definitely not needed for many floors.

    Damage is great with this team. I usually one shot many bosses using a single dark TPA and some amount of jammers spawned from Viz or saved from the previous floor. Managing Jammers has been super fun and I plan orb management whenever I play other leads to practice. My main concern was just as expected- very little dark orb creation. If I had more dark orb creators, I would be using less jammers to deal damage meaning I use less Viz actives. But Z8 skyfall buff really helps a lot. At times, My board would have enough 8+ dark orbs allowing me to use 3 jammers and 2 dark TPAs to clear some boards. This is even more reason to consider Fenrir as a sub for quick easy damage if your Viz is still charging.

    Will post numbers later.

    No board change is very unfortunate. Zuoh can be an interesting choice for a sub with a single TPA and a board change that has synergy with Viz. I mentioned Ryune as the optimal board changer comboing well with AGeist and Viz. AHaku would be my next pick as SI. But, AHaku would be a good sub-optimal choice if you do not have a good SI base or missing a good sub.

    I mentioned shield options, though there are really only two dark devils that provide shields: Cursed Wyrm and Dark Golem (Hysferzen). The former provides a 35% shield for 2 turns and enhances your dark orbs at 6 CD, the latter a 75% def break and a 20% shield for 5 turns at 10 CD. The Wyrm looks really nice with huge HP and a God killer. Dark Golem is unbindable but with only OEs for the other awakenings. Stats are comparable- 5000 HP / 1000 ATK / 0 RCV, basically. Of course, you could always inherit a shield onto someone, your flex or even AGeist as discussed earlier.

    The unbindable position is quite important. HRozuel is definitely the best of the bunch for the awakenings alone, following the TPA theme and the bind clear. A short CD is flavorful as an SI base as well. Lumiel looks great the the soon to be "laser everyone" and an okay board change for Viz and AGeist. The triple TPA is also on par with HRozuel. Next up is HAlraune. I talked about her before, but I just want to mention it here, too. 7 CD 4turn bind clear is great along with a 1-turn haste. Haste is good alone for team synergy. Dark Cyberbeast (Kakkab) would be a great sub to use for the offensive presence as well. Any of the Sleeping Beauty variants are interesting and our farmable options: Aamir, Dragon Zombie, and Doomsday with a particular focus on Doomsday as a 5 CD light>jammer active.

    More subs worth mentioning: Persephone, UUPanda, DValk, Castor, Asmodeus, Okuni, Durga, D/L Kanna, AALuci, AHades, Hel/DAgni combo (will test out later).


    SI----------------------------------------------

    I do not plan on taking this team into Arena, particularly because I have few shield options and pretty much all of them are not REM. If i had a choice, I would inherit Indra onto AGeist. Another option is HRozuel(Indra) for a shorter up time for the shield. I was also debating on whether to use ASusano for the 3 turn shield and haste since I know haste is so important for the team. There is also AIndra, but with a 2 turn shield and haste. Overall, the 3 turn shield sounds more valuable, but it is a toss up on the haste or not, for the most part.

    I definitely think AGeist can take on Arena. Skill delays are scary so you may want SDR on some of your subs, but otherwise, this team looks like it could take on a lot of content.

    Edit 1:
    I am wondering if AGeist is optimally played with Viz. The extra RCV and quick active aids the team so much and allows more flexibility in your sub choices. While you are missing out on damage from both an off color card and a weaker leaderskill, the team synergy from the active is invaluable. I really like the play this opens up for Viz; mono color, TPA focused, jammer globs focuses more on combos and jammer management.

    Edit 1:
    After using Jize(Viz) along with a Viz friend, I realized one of Jize's best qualities was providing a short CD that meant the 2.5x RCV for the team. But the problem with using Jize(Viz) can be counter what you may want in the team. The short CD is awesome for bursts of healing, but the short CD Viz inherit breaks hearts. Take that and consider you have a second heartbreaker on the team means your team is likely facing some problems continually tanking attacks.

    This made me rethink how I want to revise my inherits when pairing with a Viz friend. More than likely, Fenrir will be a good replacement for the time being. 2 CD(5CD) seems like a really good sweet for Jize skill and if I wanted an extra oomph in my multiplier.


    SI----------------------------------------------

    Edit 2:
    The pairing is interesting. Since my own Fenrir is not developed, I have not tried out the typical Fenrir/Fenrir combo so I am unfamiliar with how the playstyle feels. I am not much of a color lead person so I often forget about matching colors, too XD

    Damage is more reliable than using a Viz friend because you are not as reliant on globs of jammers to deal damage. Prongs deal massive damage if you use an active and match at least 4 colors (with 3 jammers I do not break 1m, but get very close using the team below). Recovery for Fenrir helps a lot when you get the chance to heal up and you will often get the chance to heal because of stray hearts after using certain actives. Overall, definitely a pairing I am looking forward to trying more of.


    SI----------------------------------------------

    With a Fenrir friend you cover all the colors. I suspect, of course, you can switch out Z8 as your flex. I kept Jize for the Viz active and to have another strong dark sub. Jormun is used for the board change and for those amazing awakenings. Another fun team I am looking forward to playing more of.

    I suspect you can play AGeist/Fenrir much like you would using Fenrir/Fenrir, though you are short on one low CD active. My impression so far is it will not affect your typical descend attempts using Fenrir/Fenrir.

    @kiarahakura I guess this is the sort of in depth analysis for AGeist :) Super fun lead and I will be playing him quite a bit!
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016
    kiarahakura likes this.
  7. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    177
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    User ID:
    392-495-249
    PADherder:
    link
    AGeist clears C1-8. Super happy about the results with AGeist/Viz pairing, though I honestly wish I had my Fenrir ready to simply use the color lead and get more practice with that.

    I editted the AGeist post just above to include some commentary about leader pairings and sub options. I probably will not include numbers since that is more work on theoretically optimal teams and numbers may not mean much for any player's particular box. I will probably play around with suboptimal teams just to see how that goes.

    Liberty Geist (the red one) just got a super powerful sub in Markab buffs. The day I get a second Denebola and a second Markab will be the day I finally roll out a red jammer lead. Or maybe Shuten Doji and Hephaestus can see some usage despite off-type synergy. Other subs are Revo Homura (big investment, though), and if you happened to roll Misato or Asuka from Eva Collab.
     
  8. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

    Messages:
    1,326
    Likes Received:
    1,190
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    User ID:
    311 462 320
    PADherder:
    link
    There is always Gainaut as a red jammer lead? :p lol

    Anyway, I can understand Misato because of the haste. But why would Asuka be nice?

    EDIT: Also, just a note but I plan to have the Honorable Mentions section up by end of this weekend. :) Lots of information to comb through haha
     
  9. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    177
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    User ID:
    392-495-249
    PADherder:
    link
    LOL Totally forgot about Gainaut somehow.

    Asuka because there are so few Red Machine cards in NA. You can probably opt out of having her since she is largely replaceable by even the farmable jammers despite not being Machine, but her RCV is good at least.

    And no problem. I am meticulous so I am going through options, too.
     
  10. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

    Messages:
    1,326
    Likes Received:
    1,190
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    User ID:
    311 462 320
    PADherder:
    link
    Hey Guys,

    I just finished up the "Honorable Mentions" section of the guide. Currently this only will feature AGeist as theory-crafted by @bibi . The information I posted in the section is a more simplified version/summary of all the posts. :)

    Anyway sorry this took so long but real life has a way of dragging me around. ;) Please let me know if any corrections or adjustments need to be made.

    In the future I also hope to add @graps Acubens information to the section as well.

    Thanks everyone!
     
  11. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    177
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    User ID:
    392-495-249
    PADherder:
    link
    Thank you for the honorable mention :) I hope others will pick up AGeist and starting trying him out. Different playstyle than Viz and Fenrir is definitely welcome :3

    @kiarahakura, if you can add Z8 as an ideal sub, that would be awesome. 7 CD haste and an active that "provides" dark orbs is extremely useful. If there is a comparison, Hel plays very similarly to AGeist I have found. While Jize is great for his low CD and as an inherit base, you can probably get away with a Viz partner and 2 Z8 if you really wanted. With a Fenrir partner, bring Jormun, Fenrir, and 2 Z8 and that is good for many dungeons already.
     
    kiarahakura likes this.
  12. graps

    graps Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    717
    Likes Received:
    1,485
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    User ID:
    385 693 374
    [​IMG]
    did this thing :)

    Too much of a pain to play seriously, hoping for good buffs in their upcoming UVO but my hopes aren't too high seeing as gung ho doesn't know how to balance their own game.

    If you want to burst just pop an Acubens or two and stall another 2 turns, that way they are up for the next floor, makes your life easier. Hoard as many jammers as you can. Sweep green/light/dark floors quickly and stall on red/blue ones, if something is 2nd half red/blue try to knock them into that if you need to stall. Any tricolour board changer into both leads' actives should be good for burst. I brought 8 row awakens on my team so I used those but TPA is fine too.

    You could make a system with 6x Acubens & pop 2 every turn. No offensive awakens outside of OE and bad stats though, also zero SB is a pain. Having just one of himself as a sub probably helps though.

    On subs I like heartmakers, all of mine were heartmakers so every time an active went up I could pop one to keep alive. Haste is also really good, because Acubens is 3 turn CD and it can save you by getting him up just in time.

    This also applies to Denebola/Algedi.
     
    foxwaffles, bibi and kiarahakura like this.
  13. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    177
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    User ID:
    392-495-249
    PADherder:
    link
    I want to post a farming team I had been tinkering with. While I do not have 3-4 Fenrirs, challenge mode has given me the option of using said many Fenrirs with Another Geist as lead and the results are quite nice!


    Because AGeist does not require colors and has a TPA focus, clearing floors quickly is pretty easy for him. Just pop a Fenrir, go for the modest 25x multiplier turn one and hope you get lots of jammers for the next turn. Pop another Fenrir for three more dark orbs and more jammers and you can start getting big multipliers using Dark TPAs. Since you are not concerned about colors, big bursts can involve using multiple Fenrirs a single turn for globs of jammers and multiple Dark TPAs. If the modest 25x is enough for the dungeon, you just match the dark TPA and 3 jammers for quick clears (somewhere in the ballpark of 1.2 mil).

    F1: Fenrir 1
    F2: Fenrir 2
    F3: Fenrir 3, Z8
    F4: Fenrir 1
    F5: Fenrir 2
    F6: Fenrir 3, AGeist 1
    etc.

    If the dungeon is short (5 floors), just pop all your actives if you want.

    This only works if you are using an AGeist partner because of the 9 SBs you get from the set up (in order to have AGeist ready by F4, that is). If you are using a Fenrir lead, just include the 4th Fenrir into the cycle and continue running the team as stated above. If running solo, you can use the SB badge for the same basic flow.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
    pad_n00b, RaMatthieu and kiarahakura like this.
  14. gottasmile

    gottasmile Member

    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    User ID:
    354883300
    PADherder:
    link
    I pulled dupe Fenrir this weekend, and I'm not sure what the best team build would be. I'm not very good at the Fenrir play style yet, but it's good keep challenging myself :) Anyway here are my options for subs:
    • dupe Fenrir
    • Shuten-Doji
    • Jorm (have 2, the second one is in progress)
    • R/G Liberty Geist (needs some work, but will get there eventually)
    • Algedi (thinking about inheriting her onto A. Ama or D/L Kanna)
    • A. Ama or D/L Kanna
    • I had been using Akechi for hearts on my previous attempt at a team

    Thanks for whatever input you are able to provide - I've already learned a lot just by reading and re-reading this thread.
     
    kiarahakura likes this.
  15. foxwaffles

    foxwaffles Weak to pretty boys

    Messages:
    4,178
    Likes Received:
    3,799
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    PADherder:
    link
    I love A.Ama on the team, she sports a ton of RCV, great great emergency button active and covers light. I personally prefer her over Algedi for the utility she brings to the team since the Fenrirs have little RCV (I also don't own Algedi). Also Revo A.Ama will be here soon and she will become even more of an HP stick than she already is (another reason she is so good).

    My team set up is:

    Fenrir / Jormungandr / Jormungandr / A.Ama / A.Yomi / Fenrir

    However, I replace the second Jormungandr with A Susano, I'm thinking of replacing A.Yomi as he is primarily there for full board enhance and the THREE TIME EXTENDS b/c Fenrir is difficult to play. I just pulled a dupe Fenrir as well and will replace Jormungandr #2 likely with him.

    If you had Fenrir Viz, is better than dupe Fenrir as a sub :eek:
     
    gottasmile and kiarahakura like this.
  16. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    177
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    User ID:
    392-495-249
    PADherder:
    link
    A lot of people love having utility on Fenrir, as I have seen. Typical set ups I see people tossing around are:
    Fenrir / board change / utility / utility / utility / Fenrir
    Board change in the form of Jorm typically though Gainaut and most recently Aten are getting some attention. I think Jorm is typically preferred for double fingers and SBs.
    Utility is often in the 3 forms:
    a second board change, bind clears, and delay.
    Board changers a mentioned above, bind clears are typically focused around two: LMeta and AAMa since they cover light and bring huge RCV to the team. Delays are notably Orochi for water TPA action and for a long delay that can charge up Fenrir's active.
    Some people like running a second Fenrir on their team so they can inherit something onto their lead Fenrir (usually a shield). Having a Viz can work in a similar manner.

    I like foxwaffles' idea of using AYomi. TEs are great for starting to learn Fenrir and the extra time from her (his/it, whatever AYomi is) active for THREE turns is incredibly useful. I want to also highlight RevoHades as a possible sub for the higher RCV and higher base ATK so even lower multipliers can demolish some floors. The blind-resist awakenings can be clutch for some dungeons as well.
     
  17. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

    Messages:
    1,326
    Likes Received:
    1,190
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    User ID:
    311 462 320
    PADherder:
    link
    Hello, and welcome to the jammer pack! ;)
    @foxwaffles and @bibi already gave some good advice. My go to Fenrir team is:

    My flex card is usually my other max skilled fenrir. But of course I will take whatever it is I need for certain dungeons.

    Anyway, the playstyle definitely takes some practice and can be really hard for those full activations. But as you get your cards maxed skilled and your core team formed you will soon see that fenrir can clear a lot of content pretty easily. It is also really nice to have him in those dungeons that give you 'free' jammers. :p tehe

    Don't forget the haste! I love the haste on my Ama and Z8.
    It can really help you out if you got a bit active hungry on previous floors.

    Oh wow, nice catch! I never thought to add Revo Hades to the sub list. :D Thanks; I'll add this into the guide when I do my next round of sub updates. Also saw you mentioned Aten. I'm still considering if he might be a decent mismatch leader option since Fenrir really shines on 7x6 boards. But I had a derp moment and didn't think of adding him to the sub list. Silly me. o_O
     
  18. gottasmile

    gottasmile Member

    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    User ID:
    354883300
    PADherder:
    link
    Thanks so much for the advice and team building guidance foxwaffles, bibi, and kiarahakura - I'm feeling better about trying some things out. I will definitely include Ama in my line up . . . and I hadn't thought of Orochi at all (and I do have that one!). No Yomis . . . but understanding the principle is really helpful. Again, thank you SO MUCH! Up to this point, I've pretty much been a Sarasvati/Nepdra/Ilm/Krishna player who doesn't care much for the heart-cross leaders; I've been looking for a different type of lead, and this could end up being my next obsession :happy:
     
    foxwaffles and kiarahakura like this.
  19. pad_n00b

    pad_n00b Hot.

    Messages:
    1,440
    Likes Received:
    125
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    Is Aten a bad choice? 7x6 makes Jormugandr and Gaianut more reliable and his skill is good too.
     
    kiarahakura likes this.
  20. gottasmile

    gottasmile Member

    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    User ID:
    354883300
    PADherder:
    link
    Do you think A. Indra could work, as I don't have A. Yomi? He has 2 time extends, 2 skill bind resists, and 2 TPAs along with his damage reduction active.
     

Share This Page