[Team Building] Jammer & Poison Appreciation Thread

Discussion in 'Team Guides' started by kiarahakura, Aug 15, 2016.

  1. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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    I think awoken indra is a great utility to have, and he covers light and green which is nice. I personally always favor TPA and haste cards on my fenrir teams just because they tend to fit into his play style better. But please feel free to experiment and let us know ;)

    I don't think I would pair Aten and Jorm leaders since Jorm boosts green attribute. However Aten+Gaianut doesn't sound like a bad idea at all. :D I still feel that a Fenrir+Aten pairing can also work out. Sure you drop to x125 max damage but the larger board for rainbow jammer leaders (or any of them really) is just such a nice luxury to have. Aten also brings a board change with him and all those killer awakenings. So hopefully one day I can pull that guy and give the mismatch pair a try! o_O
     
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  2. pad_n00b

    pad_n00b Hot.

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    Oh I meant using Aten as a leader to make Jorm and Gaia have more consistency
     
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  3. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

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    My two cents shortened by Spoiler tags.

    In my opinion, a shield is inferior to a delay. Since most enemies before the final floor do not have shields, a delay can be used to get your actives up in time for the boss. On the final boss, you just one-shot and not worry about tanking hits. On the other hand, a shield can be applicable just about anywhere, but stalling is a little different for a shield than it is for a delay. Shields carry across floors as well, but you still get hit, which is the problem for Fenrir since RCV can be difficult. You could argue it is easier to heal off the damage with a shield since you receive less damage, but my reply would be why are you using the shield in the first place? If it is to stall, would a delay have been better? This is why I did not suggest shields

    My thoughts on AIndra specifically, it is fine as a sub, but I would prioritize bind clears (specifically AAma) and delays (specifically AOrochi) as your goto utility. If you have space to sub AIndra with important utility already considered, feel free to fit him in. Consider the length of shield if you have other options as well, like Susano, non-awoken Indra, etc. I do know most people choose to inherit a shield onto something, though I am unsure what the shield is usually inherited upon (I would think your Fenrir lead).

    On Aten, I see most people wanting to run Aten as a sub. I think the power drop has pushed people to not wanting to pairing Fenrir with Aten. I do not have Aten or have tried using a friend Aten lead, but try the pairing in endless if you can and see for yourself how the playstyle and damage feels.

    I do want to say this paragraph is theorycrafting. My opinions right now are you probably want to stack board changers when using an Aten friend lead to abuse the 7x6 board. Fenrir / Aten / Jorm / Jorm / AAma / Aten looks really fun to play when SBR is not an issue. The reason I want board changers is to guarantee colors for the best multiplier possible with the # jammers as the main random factor. Fenrir's active spawning only 3 jammer orbs undercuts the potential of the 7x6 board whereas relying on the jammer skyfalls depends heavily on your ability to make matches/clearing the board.

    As a sub, Aten's 5 CD board change is very good and 9x damage on most of the game on top of Fenrir's rainbow multiplier. If used in place of Jorm, the loss of double SBs is largely inconsequential but the fingers is unfortunate. However, Jorm gives a more optimal board since it does not produce hearts. I think some people are choosing to have Aten and Jorm on their team with Aten being used more liberally because of the shorter CD while saving Jorm for the final floor/high HP floors.

    Edit: if SBR is a problem, consider Viz in place of Jorm.

    As a final note, you work with what you have. To answer your question @gottasmile, try to follow the suggested team set ups and for what you do not have, improvise and sub what seems to bring the best value. AIndra has great value and if it is the best you have for the moment, go for it. As kiara has said, experiment and see how your results go. @pad_n00b, the 7x6 board should increase the overall number of jammers that appear from board changers, though do expect 3 jammers to appear from a board change from time to time :^)

    Edit: just now tried out Jorm boards on 7x6 using a Tifa friend. I typically got around 7 jammer orbs as the average, which is what you would expect, though it is very difficult to move orbs around to get a huge burst, specifically getting clumps of jammers. Consider subbing Viz for one of the Jorms to have more jammers (despite losing Fire orbs) along with Viz' double SBR and retaining double fingers. Edit 2: Granted, I think my small sample size of boards could also mean the average is higher.* I did get a lucky board with 15 jammers just now XD
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
  4. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

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    Actually, I just realized we do not have a Misery guide for the poison section. I hypermaxed my Misery a long time ago but never got around to making teams for her. I would love to hear what everyone has to say about Misery and what team comps you would run. I have a couple but I do not feel like typing a ton about Misery XD Let me know your thoughts and if you have Misery! I would like to start trying her out.

    Edit: Misery's information for reference:
     
  5. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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    Ah I remember this card. I also remember how Carlos and I were so upset that she was machine instead of dragon type. A dragon typing would have meant she could work alongside the other poison leads.

    However with that said, I think she could certainly be fun to try and should play very similar to Hel. Ironically though, Hel has much better awakenings despite being the farmable option. :p

    Long story short, I think I decided not to add her since Hel (being farmable) played the same way. But of course Misery team comps would look very different due to there being no color or type restrictions.

    I could certainly start to work on throwing together a section for her in "Honorable Mentions" if you would like. :)


    @Carlos R. Marti-Figueroa - what do you think about Misery? You are a much bigger guru on the poison front than I am.
     
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  6. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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    Looks like dFenrir's tanky mismatch friend just got a whole lot better:
    http://puzzledragonx.com/en/news.asp?nid=621

    Now Vritra will cover light and does his damage off of light/dark combos. Which means that a fenrir viz active will no longer ruin damage output (if you have him). Sure Vritra's row awakenings are still pointless but an easy x7 ATK boost for light/dark matching can be great for those trash floors.
     
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  7. BillyBlanks

    BillyBlanks Active Member

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    I just pulled fenrir and am considering playing around with him for something new.

    I have a ms hanuman (don't ask lol), is he not mentioned because he's just not very strong or is it that he's so annoying to max skill nobody bothers?
     
  8. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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    For farmable options there are definitely much better cards such as Jorm, Z8, and Gainaut. You are certainly welcome to use him for now until you get something better. But his green row-focused awakenings and the fact that he doesn't even spawn enough jammers for activation (need at least 3) means he's not worth the effort of skilling up.

    If you just want to throw something together to try him out I would probably start with:
    |
    Certainly not the best but just something i threw together scrolling your dark box. Lumiel converts to 4 colors which will give you basic activation on fenrir. She also has 3 TPA in her last form and covers blue. (TPA is how I play fenrir lol) Grape dragon is for green coverage and healing. Lilith is for light coverage and her active will boost devil dmg which Fenrir and Lumiel are. Last slot can be whatever for now so long as it doesn't break jammers.

    In the end though grabbing a Jorm and skilling/evoing him should always be any Fenrir player's first priority. :)

    If you want to do some co-op or something to get a feel for him (or just want to farm Jorm) let me know.
     
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  9. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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    EEEEEEEEEeeeekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk! Fenrir AND Fenrir Viz buffs! YES PLEASE!
    http://www.puzzledragonx.com/en/news.asp?nid=625
    http://pad.gungho.jp/member/sinka/powerup/170219_2.html

    Fenrir LS buff:
    effect: Attack power increases as more than three obstacles are connected, up to 10 times.
    Attack power is doubled [x2] by 4 attribute simultaneous attack, 2.5 times by 5 attribute.
          ↓
    Effect: Attack power increases as you connect more than 3 baffles, up to 10 times.
    Attack power rises with 3 attributes or more simultaneous attack, up to 4.5 times. [kiara - is it just me or he just went from being x625 to x2025 dmg!!!]

    Viz LS buff:
    effect at the end : Attack power increases as you connect 3 or more distractions, up to 10 times.
    Devil type resilience [rcv] is 1.5 times.
          ↓
    Effect: Attack power increases as you connect more than 3 baffles, up to 10 times.
    All parameters of demon type are 1.5 times. [kiara - i assume its also a x1.5 to ATK as well so that means viz now is a x225 dmg lead! woo!]


    dFenrir is also getting a time extend awakening added and Viz is getting a second boost awakening.

    So LOTS to look forward to! Not just these of course - ALL THOSE REVOS! :eek:
     
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  10. xer 21

    xer 21 Mathematically the Worst Player on the Forums

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    Holy shit!. D FENRIR just became a 20x rainbow lead even before the jammers! Nownyou can save your akills for bosses as 20x with prongs is more than enough for trash floors and many sub boss floors.
     
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  11. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

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    Some people are talking about the possibility of running FenrirxViz as a strong pairing. 1.5/x/1.5 for a bit of tankiness with possible 25x from Fenrir and 15x from Viz is incredibly powerful. The fact you get 2.5x for just 3 colors is already a huge change.

    The other great news is Jormun and Gainaut, among others, are going to become inheritable. Inheritable board changes are going to amazing for Fenrir is ways to get potential amazing damage dealing subs, like Kanna and Satsuki as strong TPA subs with a board change on top of them. While Aten can make hearts as well, having a board without hearts gives better chances at TPAs and more jammers. Generally, though, I imagine getting some hearts is still better. Just a thought.

    As a side note, I was actually hoping unbindability for Fenrir or Viz, but the leaderskill buffs are quite significant. I am also hoping the buffs for Constellation 2 are significant enough to make strong powerfuly subs as well. Z8 getting multiplayer boost makes his stats incredible. 850 weighted stats with multiboost? Yes please! Another Geist has even more multiboost subs to play with XD

    I want to dabble in poison meta a bit, but I do not play enough to know how great it is.
     
  12. xer 21

    xer 21 Mathematically the Worst Player on the Forums

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    Also, o think i noticed that D Fenrir is getting an active skill buff down to 4 turns. That's also really nice as dual leads can just trade actives.
     
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  13. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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    x25? If I read the buff as google translated it for me then dFenrir is now a x45 lead no? o_O

    And yes! That whole announcement was just amazing in terms of this guide! Lots of love for our jammer pack! I also saw that Linthia got a small buff as well? ;)

    Either way I'm going to have lots of work to do and probably will have to rethink ALL of the example teams and listed sub options. Question: Should I update the guide with this information in mind BEFORE it hits NA? Or just keep the draft ready to go so that I can immediately paste it as soon as we receive the update? If anyone has any suggestions or information they feel I should add please let me know!

    Also @bibi let me know if you'd like any information to the AGeist section edited!
     
  14. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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    @Carlos R. Marti-Figueroa is a way bigger guru when it comes to the poison meta than me. :) However I am always available for some Hel or Linthia co-op if you'd like to try it out. Both leads are extremely fun.
     
  15. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

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    I do not know how I keep messing up these things. Yes, it is 45x... So it is 45x by 15x as a potential for the Fenrir/Viz combo= 675x potential.

    I have been keeping Another Geist in mind. Overall, he is completely overshadowed by Fenrir and Viz as a lead and serves little use as a sub. I am trying to think of a reason to use him as an inherit seeing as how AGeist will be one of the descend bosses to become inheritable, but there just seem to be so many better options than AGeist's. At least you could inherit him as a delay buffer and for amazing stats. Unless AGeist is getting a buff for being a jammer lead, that would be cool.
     
  16. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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    True the dogs are back on top. However many leads here have never been in favor but we play then anyway! :p

    AGeist has always been an acceptable sub option for light coverage on Fenrir teams. Those dark TPA are always delicious. Plus he is devil typing so if someone does do the mix dog pairing then his high HP will get boosted. Plus he also has that co-op awakening meaning in multiplayer mode it gives that much more a push as a sub option.

    Either way, we should just wait and see! With such a massive update I'm sure there may be even more descend boss buffs! If Linthia and Gainaut can get one then there is a high possibility our other leads will get one too! (i.e. Sevenzard, Hel, AGeist)
     
  17. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

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    Yeah, I am on the Fenrir Discord channel so what members they have there will be discussing team comps and ideas on how to optimize or play around with these subs and inherits. It is turning our interesting as some of them are saying Geist does have potential as an inherit (I am skeptical about this since his CD is so long) and as a sub, those TPAs are really nice but again with the CD. Actives still seem so important to me especially if you can opt for utility instead of Geist's active.

    That still does not mean AGeist is weak by any means. The farming system I mentioned with the Fenrir subs can now be one Fenrir less and have utility or keep that Fenrir for a larger burst. The 4 CD does a lot for AGeist since that means Fenrir's active can be used more often. With 2 Fenrir subs, you can bet you will be dealing very consistent damage on AGeist.
     
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  18. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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    Oh I bet that Jammer Discord channel is chugging beers right now! I'm sure none of us ever saw such great buffs coming for the jammer meta. :)

    Sweet... I might be able to try that out then since I have my two dFenrir pretty much done. However farming AGeist has not gone the smoothest for me haha.
     
  19. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

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    Next time Geist is back in the descends, I'll hit you up. I really hope there is more AGeist love.
     
  20. Potatö@pg

    Potatö@pg New Member

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    Came here to fangirl over fenrir viz buff. My fenrir viz arena clear is looking like a reality now :):):):):)
     
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