[Team Building] Umisachi & Yamasachi 2.0

Discussion in 'Archived Guides' started by 0never, Oct 5, 2014.

  1. mtb911

    mtb911 Disposable Assassin

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    I was more thinking of Skuld for the Type Synergy, the TPA and the SBR. Blue suffers from not having double SBR cards
     
  2. Joshsp1985

    Joshsp1985 Well-Known Member

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    3rd U&Y is great for filling flex
     
  3. silfer

    silfer Expert Lurker

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    guys, i got a skill up on one blue pirate. thank you u&y gods
     
  4. Gargoyle242

    Gargoyle242 Cunnin' Linguist

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    I'm debating whether or not I should evo my dupe to the ult ult form, or if I should hold out in case they come out with an awoken form like they did with Sakuya. Thoughts?
     
  5. kandjar

    kandjar President of the Otaku Waifu Association

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    First of all, before discussing about his SUEVO form; he's definitively worth UEVOing at the very least, no question there.

    After that regarding his SUEVO forn, well...as a sub the major difference are +900 HP and a SLR, so:
    - if you often fail due to lack of HP;
    - or if you arent already 100% SLR
    then go for it!

    Aside for that, it will depends of the value you put in the evo mats, personally I wouldn't hesitate and do it.
    I mean: even assuming that he'll get an awoken UEVO form (which I don't think will be coming anytime soon):
    - it won't be available in the US for a while, and you may get a third one...
    - his current mats aren't that hard to get, it's not like you need a uevo tengu and so on...

    Personally, I don't hesitate unless I need to work for it (meaning: collecting some desc bosses, level and evolve them up....), I'll just do it :)
     
  6. Gargoyle242

    Gargoyle242 Cunnin' Linguist

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    It's hard to argue with that, thanks for the feedback.
     
  7. Ele

    Ele on the plus egg hunt

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    Soon as I get Fatty, I'm UUEVOing my U&Y. Had that teaching thing to do when Fatty's dungeon came around, so hopefully I can pull a Fatty in the next PEM rotation, or get to actually run Fatty's dungeon.

    Now all I have to do is to raise my 2nd and 3rd U&Y up.

    so.. how does this sound for a team: U&Y / BLodin / A. Yomi / U&Y / BR Orochi / FRIEND - U&Y

    Maybe Durga? L. Meta? D. Meta?
     
  8. kandjar

    kandjar President of the Otaku Waifu Association

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    I'd uevo;ed orochi, A.Orochi is really nice :)
    And currently, you don't have a light coverage. A.Yomi is DG.

    why don't u: U&Y / U&Y / B.Odin / LMeta / A.Orochi ?
     
  9. akhc

    akhc Vissi D'Arte

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    The thing with the new UUevo is getting SBR. That's the main reason I stopped really playing UmiYama.

    Personally I'm not picking them up again until Awoken I&I arrive. For now you could run something like U&Yx2/LKali/A Yomi as a core - gives you plenty of time and a full board changer. Sub in A Isis for full SBR or LMeta (or A Isis) if you need bind removal. Or A Orochi or even SQ if you need more offense. Or DMeta/DIza for a shield.
     
  10. 0never

    0never Retired!

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    Updated the subs and awakenings section. Also updated the foreword in the team building section.


    You're not supposed to say that in the U&Y thread! :p

    But to be perfectly honest, I'm in the exact same situation, except I don't care about I&I at all. Ok this is going to be a long rant....

    The U&Y evo isn't bad or anything, but it's only really a maintanence update, to keep him still operational within the current enviroment (skill binds, etc), not a complete upgrade like what Ra got with his awoken evo for example. I belive U&Y's position relative to all of the other leaders in the game, is much lower now than both when he first came out and when he got his first evo. Imagine if there was a percentile ranking for pad leaders, (just for reference there's slightly more than 100 pantheon + GFE gods all up right now), U&Y would have been like the top 97th percentile when he first came out (DMeta was the best team in the game, Sakuya had better subs at that time, U&Y was probably next?), around the 90th percentile when his 1st uevo came out (U&Y was right behind heroes and Sonias, don't think norns were out in NA yet), but probably only around the 70th percentile now. 70th percentile doesn't sound too bad.... until you realize that's including a lot of stuff that noone ever leads with (greek2, archangels, archdemons, norse, odins), once you remove all of those, U&Y's probably borderline 50%.

    Ok the last U&Y evo came out on 2014-11-03, now it 2015-11-15, an entire year has passed. Pandora 16x + rows was the hardest hitting team 1 year ago, then Jugger came and broke the game, and now Juggler isn't even top tier. In all that time while the game moved ahead by leaps and bounds.... U&Y got a skill bind resist and 1.2x to a single type only when a skill is used. So yeah, I couldn't get nearly as excited over this U&Y evo as I was over the last one. It also didn't help that U&Y's long time competition, Sakuya, got a much superior evo at the same time.

    I have the optimal Yomi Dragon lineup (aside from the dragon itself which comes out tomorrow), and I just rolled my 2nd Dkali today for the perfect Ra dragon team. Also have a hypermaxed A.Ra team and an A.Yomi team. So while I still keep U&Y up on slot 1, it's just for BFs, I don't really use him any more.

    And when awoken U&Y comes and hopefully puts him back in the top 90th percentile again, I will definitely be excited about it then.

    EDIT:
    I'm not saying it's unfair or anything, awoken evos are supposed to be stronger than normal evos. If uuevo U&Y was as strong as A.Sakuya then it would have been unfair for Sakuya. I do understand every monster goes through a cycle of good ==> bad ==> good. I'm just saying right now U&Y is not in the good part of the cycle, and I can't really do anything about that except wait.

    Ok that was kind of a depressing post.
    But on the bright side, at least U&Y > LKali now. It's super important lol. You don't know how many times I've heard stuff like "you have LKali no reason to play U&Y".
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
  11. dthan

    dthan Active Member

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    Yeah I do feel kind of underwhelmed by his new uvo. I find myself running into a lot of boards I can't activate because I don't have time to clear it and when I do activate the damage output just isn't that great because I'm focusing so much on matching the 4 colors as opposed to someone like bastet who just needs 3 wood orbs to activate. I hate feeling like I want to feed him off xD, but I won't because he was my first hypermax. I tried taking him through the FF collab dungeon, but I just couldn't get through the back to back bosses because of the inconsistency. I think a time extend over the wood orb enhance he got would have made things a lot better. For me at least.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
  12. akhc

    akhc Vissi D'Arte

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    @0never congrats on the second DKali ;). Yomigon/Ragon? Or both?

    Don't get me wrong. I'll always have a hypermaxed UmiYama. It's the first card I started with and I still have a soft spot for it.

    I don't think they are really that bad in terms of where your have them percentile wise. I've been playing around with then a little and with my current team of UmiYama x2/Blodin/LKali/A Isis I find that 25x is enough for most floors of EEC bearing in mind there's 8 orb enhances there. And if I drop an active and have 8 blue orbs I'll hit 2 million damage for the 3 UmiYamas and Blodin hits for more. That's quite a bit better than 70th percentile.

    Put it this way with Famiel to come and A I&I things can only get better and I'm confident even now given the 100% SBR I could do C10 which before this I wouldn't even attempt.
     
  13. 0never

    0never Retired!

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    Thanks! I could sell a few 6* GFEs and get both.... but I probably shouldn't do that, some stuff I'll probably regret selling one day.

    Going to get Yomi Dragon first, because Ra Dragon is mostly for Arena and I don't really care about that at the moment (still have loads of piis in presents). Ra Dragon also needs latents, and Yomi Dragon will farm the 5x4s for them.

    Same, I'm never going to fuse away U&Y.

    U&Y's damage output is certainly top tier; assuming you aren't orbtrolled, 1 U&Y active on a TPA heavy U&Y team will usually out-spike 1 LKali active on A.Ra. U&Y's problem has always been reliability, that "assuming you aren't orbtrolled part", because you're always orbtrolled (like how people say 80% SBR = 0% when it matters the most).

    Low HP, difficulty in getting 100% SBR (it's annoying that none of the 3 triple/quad TPA subs carry SBR), vulnerability to binds, and low extend time count, are each minor factors, but become significant when added up.


    I remember arguing with that sl1431423 guy on the topic of Pandora like a month ago. He was like "Pandora is still easily a top 10 leader" and I'm like "no way bro", and listed 20 things better than Pandora as a counter example. When I wrote that post yesterday, I was thinking most of those things probably apply to U&Y too.

    We can try this again, since I'm sort of interested exactly where U&Y stands too.
    Better than U&Y (total 27 things) - The 4 leader MP dragons, all awoken E1s except Isis, A.Ama, A.Yomi, A.Sakuya, the 3 awoken I1s, Z8, Scarlet, Kanna, all 4 demon beast GFEs, the other 4 awoken 5E (they're grindy but quite capable), Tsubaki (Leilan or Scarlet system), Robeelz.
    Debatable (8) - Sarasvati & Krishna, Osiris & Hathor (as much as I hate playing these, imo they're more reliable for top end content than U&Y), A.Susano (his play style is disgusting but he can beat c10s and stuff), Skuld, new Dmeta, Sumire.
    I'm probably missing a few things here and there, especially the debatables section.

    Ok lets roughly say there's 30 things better than U&Y. Counting rows on padherder, there's 21*5+2 = 107 pantheon + GFE gods, make that 115 because add 5 MP dragons and some descend bosses that are actually usable leaders. (115-30)/115 = 0.7391 = 74th percentile.

    That's not including any of the collabs things, because I don't want to go into that mess, but some of the collab gold eggs are quite good (HKali, Cloud, updated Kenshiro and Raoh, etc)
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2015
  14. kandjar

    kandjar President of the Otaku Waifu Association

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    Agree.. One of the reason I m running A.Ama in U&Y... 2 SLR is really nice. (+ she's heal very nicely too)
     
  15. kandjar

    kandjar President of the Otaku Waifu Association

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    - Not sure what you mean by E1s, L1s , 5E....
    - You're placing A.Ama above U&Y in term of leaders????
     
  16. 0never

    0never Retired!

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    Egyptian 1, Indian 1, Chinese.

    Have you actually played A.Ama? She's like totally amazing, and is probably the only leader that can beat 5x4 EEC (ok maybe Yomi Dragon can do it too, but it would be a lot harder). A.Ama can also cheese though most c10s like it's nothing, when you're autohealing 20k it only takes you 1 combo every turn to stall indefinitely on stuff like Hera-Ur that's super dangerous for any other leader.

    A.Ama is one of the most underrated teams ever. You can find a use for that team even if you already own like single top rank team in the game, because it's so different.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
  17. kandjar

    kandjar President of the Otaku Waifu Association

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    I haven't tried actually.. But yeah, the autoheal is nuts...
    Just briefly (as it's not the appropriate thread) what team is usually recommended for her?
     
  18. 0never

    0never Retired!

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    Ama / DQ / Valk / Venus / X / Ama
    Where X can be like, another DQ, Sandalphon if you need more firepower or need shield, SQ, or whatever is necessary like MisterDrgn used Meimei in order to have enough HP in his c10 clear here.

    But yeah DQ and Venus are sort of mantadory. Unfortunately you also need a lot of +eggs to beat stuff like c10 because you don't have much HP and healers have low attack.

    When you can't beat c10 with 2x Ama (because of HP reasons) you go Ama + Raphael combo and that can beat most c10s. Should be getting a huge boost with the new Raphael uevo too.
     
  19. kandjar

    kandjar President of the Otaku Waifu Association

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    Well, I don't have Venus, but I'm gonna try: Ama / DQ /XQ / Valk / LZL to see how far I can go :) --- Maybe I'll feed her my 297 Athena... Nowadays I only use her for Super Kings...
     
  20. akhc

    akhc Vissi D'Arte

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    But it's not too hard getting 100% SBR. And the thing is because their active creates quite a few blue orbs, you don't really need the triple/quad TPA cards. Three hypermaxed U&Ys with 8 blue orbs and active is 6M+ damage already. That's more than enough for anything short of Arena.

    If you look at that list of 30 or so, some will struggle with C10. I really think the new UUEvo is good for anything up to and including C10. The only thing that it really can't do easily is Arena. Orb troll is always there but I'd even go as far as saying 2 U&Y/DKali/LKali/A Isis has plenty enough damage and two full orb changers still. And vulnerability to binds and fewer fingers is not exclusive to them. Honestly given this isn't an Awoken evo, it's pretty good that they can clear C10 (and I'll wait till the next set of challenges are here but I don't think they will struggle that much).
     

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