What does Aizen need for A3?

Discussion in 'Q&A' started by ViewtifulGene, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. PDF3

    PDF3 Active Member

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    But you'd still need to pop an Active to get that many Dark orbs to brute-force through. And there are significant chances of failure, such as too little or too many Dark orbs, or even just messing up forming the 2 crosses. Fixed-damage uses also one Active and ensures the kill. I think a Lumiel inherit is the best compromise, since you get the sure-kill plus a boardchange for the next floor.
     
  2. Gr33nDr4g0n

    Gr33nDr4g0n Well-Known Member

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    The "just in case" scenarios you should be preparing for are the Radars, Vishnu and DQ. Predra's just don't warrant dedicating a slot for a Ra lazer. If you're going to bring a true damage it's Lumiel or nothing.

    But yeah what @Paul Blank said. Shields are are super important. You really only need one cleaner or at most two since you don't even need one for Grisar with Aizen.
     
  3. Xayvin

    Xayvin Floofy Tail Fanboy!

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    I guess the best way to do this is to inherit Lumiel onto Beach Panda, and try to find a friend who has inherited a shield onto their Aizen.

    Team would be: Aizen(A.Orochi)/Eschamali/Beach Panda(Lumiel)/DMeta(Indra)/Cecil/Aizen(shield)
     
  4. Gr33nDr4g0n

    Gr33nDr4g0n Well-Known Member

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    If messing up your crosses is a criteria for not doing something in arena why run it at all?

    Fixed damage is a compromise Aizen can't afford IMO. He already needs a ton of random inherits to cover the real dangers so I believe you shoot yourself in the foot by dedicating an inherit slot to something that can be dealt with by AS' already on the team. Sure Lumiel is a board cleaner too but she's a bad one that will almost always force you to use another AS to fix it. If you have an AS in arena that needs another AS to make it work 8/10 times you shouldn't be bringing it, especially if it's only a response to a threat the team doesn't even face.
     
  5. grinder

    grinder Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. I'm retooling a little:
    Aizen (Orochi) / A.Haku (A.Karin) / DMeta (Indra version) / A.Perse / YomiD or Z8 or Cecil
    I'll have to try the team with Z8 and with YomiD. I won't inherit on YomiD, but will have to tinker with the Z8 inherit. Not sure on that one yet.

    Edit: Z8 might get Lumiel. I get the benefit of Cecil's resists, but I've never really used him as a sub much, so I'll have to give it a shot. I assume he'd go in for YomiD or Z8...
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
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  6. ambiguous57

    ambiguous57 Well-Known Member

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    I'm really struggling to figure out what my best team should be. And yet I'm still plowing through A1 with no trouble at all so that tells you just how OP this guy is.

    Currently I'm running Eschamali/Armored Batman/D.Meta/A. Okuni

    Armored Batman is the obvious cut, but I don't have Haku and Batman is hypermaxed. My other board changer options are Anaphon, D/B Halloween Karin and Zuoh. Currently leaning toward Karin, but I'm afraid the orb enhance awakenings will be redundant overkill. She still seems to be the best choice though and those orb enhances will do more for the team than Anaphon's crap active or Zuoh.

    I have Z8 and A. Persephone as other obvious team candidates, but I'm at a loss for knowing which is better and what inherit I should put on them. I think one of them should replace Okuni though.
     
  7. Paul Blank

    Paul Blank Defeater

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    I'd maybe go for you Eschamali/Batman/Persephone/A Okuni

    Persephone helps with the rcv since all the other subs aren't blue at all plus her active is more useful then D.Meta. You do need a shield but it'd wanna be for 3+ turns best case scenario. I do like batman's active for dark and heart orb generation in a board change. Okuni's active will be very valuable for resolves and a few other places.

    The only thing you may want are some dark resist latents to help with DQ Hera and the other colors necessary for the 100% gravities found in the game.
     
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  8. Gr33nDr4g0n

    Gr33nDr4g0n Well-Known Member

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    Cecil could really fit anywhere but if you aren't planning to build around his resists to get the DQ survival he's probably not worth it.
    Build looks good though. Only thing is I would probably inherit Indra on Z8 something other than Meta. If you have him on Meta you can't use her shield for DQ AND Indra for the Radars. It would be best to have a shield available for both if possible.

    REALY not a fan of Lumiel.
    If you're thinking of running her I would ask yourself: Is there any place in arena other than predras where I would want this AS over any other board change or shield or anything really?
    If the answer is no you should rethink using her because she'll be stuck with you long after the predra floor and she's not even needed for it anyway.
    For me the answer is a hard no but ymmv.
     
  9. ambiguous57

    ambiguous57 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I also like the heart generation on Batman which is another reason I'd hate to see him go. Not to mention the haste. I'll probably keep him around and see what happens when I swap out D. Meta for Persephone. She has pretty much been useless until it comes time to put up the shield before the DQ floor.
     
  10. Gr33nDr4g0n

    Gr33nDr4g0n Well-Known Member

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    With your stuff I would personally do Escha, A.Perseph, D.Meta, Z8. DMeta and Z8 would be your main skill carriers and inherited skills you'll definitely want are a good shield(preferably Indra) and a good delay(preferably Orochi or Hydra).
     
  11. PDF3

    PDF3 Active Member

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    If you are relying on generating enough dark orbs to make two crosses and three more orbs, then it is a gamble anyway. Are you going to be certain that your single active will make the right number of orbs? Likely, you'll need to fix it every now and then. And a fixed Lumiel board is usually better than a 2/3 board since the latter can easily have too many dark orbs causing flooding.
     
  12. Gr33nDr4g0n

    Gr33nDr4g0n Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I might have to use two AS' to kill predras but the AS' I use will actually be useful again later in the run and early on isn't where having to burn two skills is a concern. On the other hand if you bring Lumiel you get predras free but are now carrying around a mostly useless skill for the rest of the run and will likely have to burn two skill later on where it actually matters.

    Also you seem to be implying the only way to nuke predras is blind board change and pray you get a good ratio or a ratio that can be fixed to be good. I can see how many orbs Aizen, A.Persephone, Satsuki, Escha, etc will leave me with. I can see how many using a combination of those will leave me. I would just as soon bring Lumiel as I would rely on Haku for a predra kill which is to say I wouldn't do either.

    I don't mean to repeat myself because I just said this in another post but ask yourself: Is there any place in arena other than predras where I would rather have this skill than any other board change, shield or any other possible inherit?
    Because you're going to be lugging it around for allot longer than the predra floor.
     
  13. Paul Blank

    Paul Blank Defeater

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    Hmm just an oddball card I have but Saito is a 200k spike that makes 5 dark orbs which happens to be the right amount for a cross and can still be inherited over for when you want it to be something else. If it's the primary it isn't that hard to get it up if you've used it earlier. In Arena 3 you could use it to kill the tans and then the predras not too much further then be allowed to change to another move.
     
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  14. Gr33nDr4g0n

    Gr33nDr4g0n Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately he only hits one enemy otherwise he could actually be a really solid choice since guaranteed cross on activation is far from terrible. You could gamble on being able to stall out one predra but between how hard they hit and their orb conversion combined with Aizen's mediocre HP that seems pretty risky.

    But yeah if you're going to bring a less optimal skill it's way better for it to be on a base monster with other redeeming qualities so you can replace it with an inherit and not have to worry about managing the inherit to prevent it from overwriting the primary. Just keep in mind Aizen is VERY fast in arena so you could get stuck with the base skill over the inherit more often than you might think. He can definitely stall but it's pretty RNG dependent since any dark or water match triggers instant 36x. For example GL trying to stall on the normally safe spirit jewel floor when any random dark match pings them for over 25% of their health.
     
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  15. ViewtifulGene

    ViewtifulGene Mostly Retired. Still A Lazy Shit.

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    I think my final team will be APerseph/BPanda/Lumiel/Yomigon. Just thought I'd double check my inherit placement before I commit. Would this work?
    -Hydra on both Aizens
    -Awoken Indra on Yomigon
    -Ryune on Pandora
    -Susano on Lumiel
    -Late Bloomer Buffer on Perseph

    Decided not to bother evolving my Z8 for now, because Yomigon will ultimately be better post-ult. Lumiel, IMO, earns her keep for being unbindable with 3 dongs, even if some dislike her base(d) active.

    Perseph's base active has been my ace in the hole for pulling double crosses out of my ass, so I am hesitant to overwrite it. Also, I am uneasy about purple on purple inherits because my team barely stays under Sop's absorb already, even with 1C, 0 sparkle. If you think it would be better to give up on Sop, in exchange for more HP to stabilize everything else, I could swap in some purple inherits like Super Panda and Zuoh.

    For reference, my team has about 32.5K HP, give or take 500 depending on friend latents. Been loading dark resists on everyone, so that I can solo A1 without a shield and stall more easily on Zaerog. No immediate plans for killer latents unless they can be used without ruining threshold bosses.
     
  16. Gr33nDr4g0n

    Gr33nDr4g0n Well-Known Member

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    Buffer inherit on Perseph is probably fine, just makes sure the CD is unnecessarily long.

    Not a fan of double Aizen delay personally even though you can get both off guaranteed on the later floors. Mainly because I've found it extremely useful having one Aizen on orb duty while the other sits on the delay. If you want two delays I'd find somewhere on the team to inherit one instead of having them on both Aizen's.

    You can kill sop with water prongs all the way but it's useful to be able to keep everything under 200k off a single match no combo just so you don't get trolled by no water when she's dark.

    Just keep in mind unless you basically hit the full 30 dark latents they won't let you survive A3 DQ with that much HP though I assume Susano is there for that anyway.

    Still not liking Lumiel personally but at least you're using her in the most optimal way.
    How many OE's does that team have? If you can get to ~8 OE you can kill predras with a double cross match, 4 combos and nothing else if you have at least 4 enhanced darks and something with atk comparable to Zaerog.
    Also if you bring two delays Lumiel is even less useful because you can just pop a delay on the predras if you can't produce a kill board. Hell you can do that even if you bring one, just have to play super slow after to try to get it charged again for Vishnu floor.

    But w/e, she's much better as an inheritance base than an inherit at least.

    Looks good though, seems like you covered all the bases.
     
  17. ViewtifulGene

    ViewtifulGene Mostly Retired. Still A Lazy Shit.

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    If that covers all the bases then I'll go ahead with it.

    I have been killing Sop in A1 primarily with 1C purple, 0 sparkles. This is usually done with Lumiel, who zaps Fatty and takes me to the next floor with dry purples. I fuck around for a few turns on Fatty erasing purples and sparklehearts, just to make sure nothing comes back to fuck me.

    Current team has 4 sparkles, which is nowhere near the 8 you mentioned. In rogues, I have been killing Predras with 2 crosses and a purple combo.

    I could get my sparkle count pretty high if I were to slot in HallowIza and Z8, but I don't like going too wild because it limits my damage control for spawns like Thoth and Kagu. I can turn Lumiel's prongs on and off. I can't turn off the sparkles.

    I figured one Hydra inherit can serve as a buffer if I don't technically need both. I want to have options if Haphdrag spawns and all bets are off. I figured Perseph could slay Haph and then an Aizen active would cripple Kali to the point where I can walk off the delay.
     
  18. Paul Blank

    Paul Blank Defeater

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    I agree with Gr33nDr4g0n above for the most part. I do think one Aizen should be with his original move or one similar or Yomidragon having a good heart making or bind clearing move as a just in case. If both Aizens change and Yomidragon changes then you won't have anything to make hearts besides the Ryune or Panda active but most likely that's what's bound along with other subs. I do like your choice of inherits and subs though I'd just maybe change em up a bit. Ryune on Yomigon would be safer and Indra on Panda is okay since usually shielding and needing hearts to heal can serve as the same purpose in a lot of cases.

    Most likely you'll only need one delay with two shields. If you have a delay on yours you can try to find an Aizen who's doubled up since his move has a ton of synergy for the team and is a heart making active in case your Panda is on her shield and don't wanna use your board changer to heal.
     
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  19. Gr33nDr4g0n

    Gr33nDr4g0n Well-Known Member

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    What on your team is overkilling sop with 1c? Because I have 7 OE currently and hit her with 1c full sparkles and she didn't heal. At least I think it was all sparkles, I definitely didn't use an orb change on her.

    You don't need to go crazy with them but hitting at least 5 OE would be ideal and I've yet to run into any damage shield issues. Even got Parvati on a seperate run from sop and killed her in like 4 turns with single dark matches and a few combos. Never even triggered her rage threshold. It was actually pretty funny to see her go down so easy.

    If you want a buffer for Aizen you'd be better off inheriting another Aizen or pairing with a friend that has him inherited. Though the chances of you actually being able to keep an Aizen at a 13+trn overcharge by the radar floor if it wasn't your dedicated delay aren't great. Persephone buffer does work well for this if you can keep her charged but that will be harder since you can't use Panda for orb change until the Beeze floor given her inherit.
    Here's where Lumiel is coming back to bite you though since if that was a sub with a useful AS and you had the darks to tank DQ you could have a sub carry Susano AND double as a Heph solution. Sure you can use Lumiel on Heph but GL even getting enough for a cross let alone two. I wouldn't even want to use her against Beeze, chance of getting trolled is too high and you can't afford to be fixing boards at that point unless it's for Kali or a radar.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  20. ViewtifulGene

    ViewtifulGene Mostly Retired. Still A Lazy Shit.

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    Just ran a damage test. Perseph and YomiGon heal light Sop if even one purple orb sparkles.

    I have no BD subs with more useful base actives than Lumiel. Substitute would have to be Super Panda, or some shit like Satsuki or Hanzo. Or HallowIza, who effectively can only use her inherit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016

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