AS Transfer System. Your thoughts/assumptions/strategies?

Discussion in 'P&D Discussion' started by Striku, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. Striku

    Striku ,,廿_廿,,

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    Edit: Confirmed Details:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/PuzzleAndDragons/comments/43rx9v/discuss_active_inheritance_system_recap/?

    Oh boy this is going to be a hectic system. What are your thoughts about it?

    For me, this system can greatly OP a monster if given a strategic AS. It can also mean more system teams available for some people. *cough whales* For the "certain restrictions", I only have a slightly obvious guess:
    • the fodder monster must be hypered
    (Can't think of any other guesses, since they mostly have loopholes.)

    As for the strategies (mostly Haku-related):

    • Haku w/ Haku active
      • Resets board if bad
    • DKali w/ A. Raphael active
      • Bind clear with invincibility
    • Persephone w/ Anubis active
      • Haku board!!!
    • Pandora w/ Castor Active
      • Haku board!!!
    • DIza w/ Echidna Active
      • Either 3-turn shield or 3-turn delay. Plus, farmable.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
  2. Machius

    Machius Machiavellian Manipulator

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    From the livestream the 2 examples shown were an Awoken Isis with DKali's active and a Super Gunma with Awoken Hades' active. Based on this we know that both REM monsters and farmable monsters can be the base for that a 2nd AS is added to. Because both active skills come from REM monsters however we don't know if the active skill can also come from farmable monsters. All the monsters involved (base and 2nd AS source) were also at least 6stars so we don't know if lower star value monsters are eligible.

    The livestream also showed the actives to have longer cooldowns than they usually do (longer by exactly the cooldown of the base monsters normal active skill - IE +3 for Awoken Isis because her skill is 3cd and +1 for Super Gunma because it's skill is 1cd). Based on this we can assume that the 2nd AS will always gain additional cooldown equal to the base monsters AS.

    It should be noted that this was a super advance teaser and may be significantly altered or scrapped all together (like the rogue dungeon with Navitama concept).
     
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  3. Herobyte

    Herobyte Notice me Kanna

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    but you do know the cd times arent combine and you have to pick one or the other, you cant have both. Use one, they both reset
     
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  4. 0never

    0never Retired!

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    If this thing works the way I think it works....

    Put 2 Dkali actives and 2 Echidna delays on your 4 non-Dkali monsters (the delays will help you get all of your skills back), and put enhance or shield on your 2 Dkalis, to make an insanely stacked Radra team.

    Except you may need 4 dkalis for that, if the way to add a 2nd skill is to feed one monster to another.
     
  5. Zaurora

    Zaurora Momiji Best Girl

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    I think that the monster will be "consumed" upon the skill transfer. This way, you won't be able to transfer willy nilly. I personally don't know how to feel about this. It feels so power creep.
     
  6. Andelu

    Andelu Active Member

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    If Echidna can be used, then menace can go on everyone. LMeta in particular would be good for my Ra team. It seems you want monsters with low cool downs to make best use of this.
     
  7. Machius

    Machius Machiavellian Manipulator

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    Yes, it feels highly likely that the monsters will be consumed in order to transfer the skill, the option of allowing you to infinitely clone skills from monsters would lower the incentive to roll (something Gungho would never allow) and the options of pairing the monsters (so that they both gain the others skill) or of transferring the skill leaving the original monster skill-less are just too weird.

    Even if farmable low cost monster are usable I don't actually consider menace worthwhile, even on a monster with a 3-5cd that's a 13-15cd menace which is too late to be useful against most dungeons. To me the most useful skills to consider are ones with low cooldowns (7cd max) which are only occasionally needed. The biggest being Awoken Isis's Quick Guard (i'm kicking myself for selling of my spare Isis) which you can easily stick on a low cooldown orb changer like a Valkyrie, Ninja, Osiris/Nut etc. giving you a reasonable 7-8 turn Bind Clear active that you can use when necessary. Giving any team access to a good bind clearer without giving up an orb changer slot or requiring a monster which lacked awakening synergies is a huge thing. Skills like Damage Reduction, Defence Break, Poison etc. would also make good options.
     
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  8. whydavid

    whydavid Retired Goldfish

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    I hope skills that can be transfered are only non rem things
     
  9. pYrnna

    pYrnna Bikinitron's waifu

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    At first I was really against this. It seems like the cards whose sole appeal is the active would essentially disappear. But in reality, there are only a few cards that really can utilize this, A. Isis being one of the better ones, because the cd of the newly imparted active is increased. Even a 5 turn orb changer will become 14 or 15 on most other utility based cards on which you'd like the option of an orb change.

    If anything, this will increase card diversity. Cards that are already useful aren't necessarily buffed because they already have secured roles on a team, and giving them another role by imparting a new active would mess up team dynamic. You have LKali on the team for one reason: her active. Sure, you can give her a bind clear, but that leaves you one board changer down, and if you really wanted a bund clearer, there would be better options. The cd increase mechanic also means you can't give cards with already powerful actives more power without seriously investing in skill boosts. You're not going to be giving Raphael Saria's active; it'd be on ridiculous cool down.
    On the other hand, cards that were formerly useless can now play. As an example, I was thinking about giving my BMeta a blonia or Karin active. In most dungeons, 2 bind clears are redundant and I've been having some trouble playing with only 3 orb changers, none of which are full board changers. The base cd on BMeta's native skill isn't very long so I can have a relatively quick full board change on hand if necessary.

    You could also have some pretty cool combinations. Maybe there's a card that is absolutely perfect for a team with respect to awakenings but the active doesn't quite work. Maybe you lack time extends on a U&Y team and you'd like some but you can't IAP and your luck is horrid so all you have is a scummy chrono turtle. It might be useful to upload siegfried's orb change skill to chrono turtle to give it a bit more of a place on your team.

    All in all I think this is a fine addition to the game. It doesn't take away existing niches of the current monsters because a) the increased cd prevents most monsters from benefitting too heavily from imparted skills and b) the unique combination of awakenings, actives, and stats can't be replicated by monsters aiming to fill a certain role (gunma Swan with Dkali active). On the contrary, it adds to diversity because a) it gives a very specific subset of cards increased utility (cerberus rider, BMeta, AIsis) and b) it gives options for pre-existing niches to expand their roles in miscellaneous ways (giving optional King Flamie active to Amenouzume).
     
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  10. HeartlessIndigo

    HeartlessIndigo Inactive Member

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    That would probably break the gacha law, so I doubt you'll have to consume
     
  11. iammeh

    iammeh Back to playing on Alt. Account

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    I wasn't paying attention closely to the stream, but I'm pretty sure the CD of the 2nd active is added to the first. So in the example of Echinda and DKali, if you fuse DKali to Echidna, you'd have Menance at 10 CD and Dkali's board change at 17 CD. And then if you use Menance the board change goes to 17 CD again. So there's no chaining in any way possible.

    Seems to me this is more for the purpose of replacing actives than adding one. So for example if you need Awoken Ra's active for the Predra floor but you're running Shiva Dragon. Fuse Awoken Ra to, say, Ares, and you don't have to sacrifice the rows or off color.
     
  12. Inagaki

    Inagaki What are you, TAMA ?

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    It is so goood ! Can't wait !!!
     
  13. JCPRuckus

    JCPRuckus That guy from that thing you like.

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    Weld short cool down utility Actives onto Valks, Nut, or Osiris. Could easily be a free orb enhance or bind clear without wasting a team slot.

    I think the appropriate reaction (considering the apparent implementation) is to figure out every monster with a CD 5 (maybe 6) and under, and figure out what might make interesting stacks.
     
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  14. Machius

    Machius Machiavellian Manipulator

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    It doesn't break Japan's complete gacha law. That law is based on having to collect/trade in paid gacha items in order to get further premium items, it's designed to stop the addictive gambling behaviour it causes (IE. imagine if there was a game breakingly uber monster better than any current MP dragon but it was only available if you rolled and traded in a Rodin, a DMeta and an Eschamali). At one time there was a suggestion that the Awoken forms would require you to use REM cards as evolution materials but that was nixed because it was borderline illegal under the complete gacha law (also because it was hugely unpopular with the JP player base). However consuming a monster for it's skill while uniquely modifying an existing monster does not truly create a new unique monster (there is no new unique art, new unique stats or new unique skills, only an existing monster with the addition of a 2nd existing skill), you have simply turned 1 monster into something else (in this case a skill). Case in point - mechanics based around consuming characters to gain their skills have existed without issue in other Japanese games for example DeNA's Blood Brothers game (which I used to play many years back). It's probably as close to breaking the complete gacha law as you can get without actually breaking it but it is fair game for GungHo.
     
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  15. Unknown_PC

    Unknown_PC Well-Known Member

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    Jize, RGB Constellations2 could be nice, 2 and 3 cd smax respectively. They also got SBR, great offensive awakes, and color coverage, definitely got some potential.
     
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  16. Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    I feel like A.Isis will be really good when this comes around. Fully bind resist with very solid awokens, and a short active CD means the inherited skill won't be too much longer than normal. Imagine a DKali active welded onto your Isis in RaDra. She seems like the best candidate for this new concept.
     
  17. Ryeee

    Ryeee Well-Known Member

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    Because the CD gets increased, doesn't seem like a good thing to do to orb changers but good for utility subs or anyone without orb change where their AS doesn't get used in every dungeon so Isis, Lmeta, Ceres, Ra, Bastet. Give them orb changing skills with haste to minimize the longer CD.

    But so far my opinion is no but that could change.

    Edit: Actually, my chibis would become useful now. Transfer chibi DQXQ to Lmeta?
     
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  18. BurningMan

    BurningMan Dropping the green Bomb

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    They only showed REM monster skills in the stream so i am pretty sure it is exclusive to REM monsters (maybe even descend bosses if they feel generous)
     
  19. HappyNoms

    HappyNoms Ogliarchial collectivist

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    Seems broken, but I expect it to modify.

    It's also pretty crystal clear none of the P&D guys play any magic, because this is cryptic command design theory in spades, except they don't understand the history, or how to cost the power of additional modes and options.

    The first fuse that occurred to me wasn't some obscure card finding the light, it was just putting LKali active on to Hathor. The normal gravity is often superfluous wasted, and you can sustain/stall at will easy peasy to have it up or recycled. It's just a pure power creep buff, +2 full board change to a Hathor team.

    Also, A.Isis on to A.Horus, as fire enhance is whatevs and an up on entry CD7 bind break welcome. Just straight power creep to already high tier cards.

    Have not even gone deep into sifting and pattern mismatcher really trying to break anything, just super obvious stuff clean off the top.

    Upping the cd to some degree seems like a mandatory hard constraint floor/feature, else double haste on to Maede subs makes chaining haste go infinite and Maede board resets can autoprocess chip damage anything to death.
     
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  20. Tachii

    Tachii Scrubby Sauce

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    Well I guess I'll be keeping all my REM pulls if this goes global. Could make irrelevant monsters much more relevant. Like certain bind clears (fairy girls).
     
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