Blegh, considering last minute Shirou exchange

Discussion in 'Q&A' started by MisterDrgn, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. MisterDrgn

    MisterDrgn You can't take the sky from me. Staff Member

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    I can make a pretty strong team of Elena/Rin/Cotton/Napoleon. Some other VDP options like Baldin, Rodin.

    But I have DMeta (never been comfortable with my setup options) and Barb&Julie. Ehhh I dunno.
     
  2. MisterDrgn

    MisterDrgn You can't take the sky from me. Staff Member

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    Oh, or replace Napoleon with a dupe Cotton. I’d have to sacrifice one of my LCottons, but that seems pretty bad-ass. Put VDP on both Cottons, go 30x god killer on Elena to just delete gods.
     
  3. BonerChamp69

    BonerChamp69 I'm huge

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    I would keep at least one cotton with 7ccc. Neither Shirou really contribute that much damage so you want cotton to have your back. Baldin is fine for VDP. I'm pretty sure you can have one sub that is not light and be fine for most things.
     
  4. JG77

    JG77 Active Member

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    Would recommend. Just beat 13M Download challenges 1-30 with that exact team (No Rin, but ran Baldin or Sakuya).
     
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  5. MisterDrgn

    MisterDrgn You can't take the sky from me. Staff Member

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    Yeah I went ahead and got him. Died on 27, beat 27, then died on 28. Even with a very strong team, there’s an annoying amount of trial and error in those dungeons (e.g., better have a full board changer up by wave two of 27).
     
  6. Ryeee

    Ryeee Well-Known Member

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    i’m debating on trading in my shirou for Saber. my team doesn’t hit high numbers like my other teams but i do like Napoleon and Awoken Set in there with his 3x 7cc
     
  7. JG77

    JG77 Active Member

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    Agreed. Although I kind of like the trial and error if it only costs me 30 stamina.
     
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  8. MisterDrgn

    MisterDrgn You can't take the sky from me. Staff Member

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    Certainly Shirou doesn't have the damage output of some combo teams off a typical 7 combo. But you get those massive defensive stats, and the potential for 400x damage with the leader actives (which admittedly might still be less than 225x from another combo team). And the leader actives help with annoying VDP/FUA boards, which is very nice in my book.

    One thing I like, as someone who isn't the best matcher, is that he's very forgiving--if you screw up your combo, chances are, you're probably gonna be fine, and you might kill the enemy anyway.

    I'm experimenting with combining offensive awoken skills, though that might not turn out great. Elena destroys God types. That's her job. Otherwise, she has meh damage output, although the 3x against Devils or Dragons is nice.

    Rin, on the other hand, does great damage if your hp happens to be near full. When I ran a dungeon just now, she ended up hitting the boss hardest, for about 200 mil. Although I just swapped in a ribbon resist SA, so that 200 mil would have been just 130 mil.

    The other two will be double 7c's? Maybe I'll try a triple 7c, but triple 7c Cotton definitely means Baldin needs to take the final spot if there is VDP to be done.

    I hear you. I've been trying to design robust teams that can handle dungeons even when you go in blind, but for the harder challenge dungeons that may not be possible. Ribbon resist on Rin will mean one less thing to worry about.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  9. JG77

    JG77 Active Member

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    Really makes me wish I had rolled Ilmina at some point though....
     
  10. ko300zx

    ko300zx Well-Known Member

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    Shirou is the 2nd best lead we have in NA behind Dmeta, and depending on your box, can be just as good, if not better. I would only make that trade if you really just wanted to play Saber or your Shirou team is plain old terrible.
     
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  11. Freddy

    Freddy Active Member

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    Quick questions since I’m also deciding about getting Shiruo as well last second. I only trade in for cards that both my accounts can use and benefit from. You can’t always trust BF’s to keep up a lead forever (out of 22 bfs i don’t have a single one with Shiruo up which surprised me). Getting a lead on both accounts let’s me always have it up when I want it, as well as customizing it with inherits and latents. So:

    1: Is Shiruo a great leader for both single and coop, or is he better in a certain one? Just wondering if he is like a yusuke type (more hp/sb/etc) in coop but is still great solo, or is he like B&J ( much more hp and good in coop, but thrives in solo with the kuro system)?

    2: Is it worth pulling the trigger if my alt is a bit weaker in subs than my main? My alt has Rcotton, Ed, RSakuya, L/R Ilmina, R/L Cthugha (2), and Gilgamesh primarily. While my main has all those guys but Ilmina, and also has Napoleon, MRodin, Suou, Enra, ASet, and more. Not completely sure what the ideal team/subs are besides Rcotton and Napoleon.

    I’ve heard Shiruo is kinda fun and a really strong end game lead, but is he worth selling my dupe gfe is don’t need but could use in the future for other collabs? I’m running low on 6* gfe but wouldn’t be trading cards I should hold onto. I have most of the meta leads besides DMeta (both accounts have Ed, B&J, and MScheat, plus cards like Yusuke, Ciel, Reeche, Diablos, and sherias roots). Is Shiruo more or less the same in terms of meta as my current leads or is he closer to DMeta’s level? Sorry for all the questions; just read this thread and wanted to see what others had to say about Shiruo. Thanks!
     
  12. JG77

    JG77 Active Member

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    So far, I've found Shiruo to be more fun than DMeta and almost as powerful -- DMeta probably handles some of the super high end dungeons with ~20 floors a little better, but actually, I've found Shiruo to be really solid for the ~7ish floor challenges (monthlies, quests, etc.).

    I've had fun messing around with subs (Cotton and Elena are always there, and if you had Ilmina, I assume that would be a staple as well), but I'll use DiaoChan, Sakuya, Napoleon, Baldin, Chthuga, etc. to try and counter various dungeon mechanics, so he's not as restrictive as some people think.

    The thing that really made up my mind as far as the meta goes, is that once he loses his use as a lead, I can just turn him into an equip, which I highly doubt will ever go out of the meta.
     
  13. ko300zx

    ko300zx Well-Known Member

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    So I have Shirou on one account, Dmeta on the other. Unless you have access to pretty much everything, I personally find Shirou to be better based on what I have available.

    With full resist coverage, it's pretty heard to beat Dmeta with a shield, big HP and damage. Without that though, I've found myself in some spots where stuff becomes a real pain. Poisons for example. With no RCV, too many poisons can really get the best of you.

    If you have to actually deal with that stuff. 4x RCV and HP is a blessing. You can match most of them away and safely heal, turn after turn if you have to, and still have the HP to tank regular hits. If you're able to resist everything, that RCV loses some of it's value, and that shield becomes stronger/more important. I still can't tank Goemon in Alt A4. Short like 5k HP. Still working on getting half the team to 110. Dmeta laughs at stuff like that.

    They are close enough that your box will determine what is better. Equips > leaderskills.
     
  14. Freddy

    Freddy Active Member

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    Wow I sent a response earlier but just checked now and saw it didn’t save or go thru; I sum it up as the hours draw near and I haven’t decided what to do yet.

    All great points; didn’t even think to ask how Shiruo compared in dungeons both long and short. I’ve used Ed for practically everything since he came out (besides my favorite farming lead for shorter dungeons in Yog). Haven’t really played DMeta much (alt has it but not perfect team) but have been hoping for a card that’s approaching that DMeta tier, tho I know Ed is not too far off from her by the subjective ranks. Ed lately has not been great against the harder content like the lvl 30-50 quests, which are shorter dungeons. Worse case scenario like you said his equip does not seem like it will lose relevance anytime soon

    Tho I haven’t played DMeta much on my alt, I think it’s because exactly what you said about her being a real pain when things don’t go your way. I’ve used her a handful of times; completed a c10 with her I think last month as well as another one of those 99 stam gift dungeons (drawing on a blank on the name even tho we just had one end this morning lol). Yet I’ve died in not so difficult 3p dungeons lol. I think Shiruo (while different style) would fit me better than DMeta because I can hit 7c with ease when using Ed, but when using yusuke I would choke a bunch of times prolly because the pressure in my head to hit 7c or die every turn in the harder dungeons got to me. Ed I would just see the board and combo; if I occasionally messed up then there was a decent chance his shield could save me. Rather obvious that the general population would do better with a combo scaling leader than a 7c or more or you’re in trouble lead. But for some reason it’s not always the obvious player skill part of the equation that prevents me from being inconsistent with yusuke.

    Which is why Shiruo intrigues me lol.

    Edit: forgot about the light/blue match every turn for yusuke as well. Haven’t played it in awhile, but those unwavering conditions weren’t for me to play as much with as I do Ed
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  15. MisterDrgn

    MisterDrgn You can't take the sky from me. Staff Member

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    Oh huh, I missed that you have until the end of today to get one. I perhaps would have waited the extra day before deciding, but I'm feeling pretty good about the decision. As you said here (and as I said above), Shirou is a more forgiving combo lead whose max damage is still really high. Regarding your earlier concern, I'm sure it will be easy to find Shirou friends for a long time because he's a top lead (I can still find folks running leads that were at the top 8+ months ago), and because he's solid for mindlessly running Mythical-ish content without worrying about big combos.

    EDIT: Oh, the scaling multiplier is also nice for co-op because you don't do an embarrassingly small amount of damage if you screw up and make a 6-combo.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  16. Freddy

    Freddy Active Member

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    Good call here, my friends list has a good amount of them. Unfortunately just checked and still no bf or mine is using him (this late aka the end of the collab, they’d already had them out as soon as they got them.) This wouldn’t be a problem because I’m either going to buy him on both now or I’m going to run it down to the wire and decide... had a long and busy day today so my mind is mush at this point.
     
  17. MisterDrgn

    MisterDrgn You can't take the sky from me. Staff Member

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    I always preferred bfs with less popular leads. You shouldn't need a Shirou bf unless you're running him super heavily. ...or running him heavily in 5 months or something.
     
  18. Freddy

    Freddy Active Member

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    Completely understandable process for picking bfs. I’ve been around since before the bf system (1980 days played) and my first two bf selections were players who had a leader I was using sparingly cause it wasn’t a meta lead (can’t remember the two cards I was using for the bfs). Either way, I would msg them before doing so to get a feel for whether they were casual users of the leads or if they felt they were in it for the long haul. Both said they would have it up for sure since they were looking for it too (once again sorry can’t remember the leads; I think one of them was toki and the other might have been sarasvati). Long story short, the first guy stomped playing two months later, the second one took the guy out after about 2-3 weeks).

    Now I pretty much just choose players I’ve been friends with a long time, are a higher rank in general, and are using the two main leads I am currently using and will until the meta shifts. If I want to play with a fun and niche leader, I check to see if my alt has it too. Even if it doesn’t, I like to try finding a card on my alt or vice verse that can pair with the other one.

    At this point I just feel a lot more comfortable having a card I invest in on both accounts, rather than hope one of my 22 active bfs will keep there’s up or even have it (said b4 I’m still shocked none of mine do).
     
  19. ko300zx

    ko300zx Well-Known Member

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    Did you pick one up? Been stomping AA with it. Don't even need a damn gem for Kalis or Metatrons. Couple of God Killers and a board change, you're set. Shirou won't be going anywhere anytime soon so if you did, good investment. Really happy I sunk a bunch of stones into this. Now if I can just get like 5k more HP so I can attempt Alt A4 without dying to Goemon every turn.

    [​IMG]

    Probably have 21 Dmetas though cause tier lists.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  20. MisterDrgn

    MisterDrgn You can't take the sky from me. Staff Member

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    Yeah, I went for it. Been having fun with the team in my sig. I've thought about converting over a second Cotton to replace Napoleon, but with all the SAs lately I've almost used up my store of +eggs, so I'm not sure converting a second Cotton is worth it, with all the current and future sub options out there. And I haven't experimented yet with sacrificing the light sub attribute on one sub to bring Enra or Baldin.

    (EDIT: Not sure if your question was directed at me or Freddy, but w/e.)
     

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