D.Kanna x Aizen - An Unexpected Powerhouse Combination

Discussion in 'P&D Discussion' started by Lunasu, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. Lunasu

    Lunasu Member

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    I've been meaning to post about this since I discovered this team composition last week, but I wanted to give myself a week with the team to see how viable it is. The end result... the team is amazing!

    So, we know D.Kanna is a decent leader paired with herself. She is pretty tanky (~60k HP, decent RCV at 5 combos), but her damage output is average at best in the current meta (27.56x, TPA basically mandatory). Well, with the flood of Aizens on my friend list, I decided to tinker around with pairing up D.Kanna with him (he is a God type!) and the results were surprisingly great.

    What do you lose over D.Kanna x D.Kanna?
    • HP - Your HP multiplier with drop from 2.25x to 1.5x. On a standard D.Kanna team (e.g. D.Kanna/Escha/Satsuki/Satsuki/A.Haku), your total team HP will fall from ~62k to ~43k. Fear not, you are still able to tank the dreaded DQ Hera preempt in arena, so the HP lost is not the end of the world.
    • RCV - Your team RCV will fall from 2.25 x at 5 combos to 1.5x at 5 combos and 2x for water types. Let's do a quick math on the team template I posted above. at 2.25x RCV at 5 combos, total team RCV is 7,837. When paired with Aizen with only A.Haku and Aizen getting the 2x RCV boost, total team RCV is 5,608 (~28% decrease in RCV).
    • 3 TPAs - If you are using Facet inherit as a damage boost, you would be weakening the effect of the skill, but you won't need a boost inherit at all with D.Kanna x Aizen (will explain later).
    What do you gain over D.Kanna x D.Kanna?
    • Much higher damage ceiling - D.Kanna x D.Kanna caps out at 27.56x. Yes, I know you're supposed to stack TPAs and use damage boosts, but it is still paltry compared to other leads. D.Kanna x Aizen will cap out at 126x on a normal board!
    • Incredible damage control - D.Kanna provides 3.5x unconditional attack boost and Aizen provides 6x (broken IMO lol) of uncoditional attack boost. This means that the team is at 21x with no activation requirements. That's pretty great (obviously excluding Aizen x Aizen at 36x which is hilarious). I'll go over the multiplier tiers.
      • 21x - Unconditional
      • 31.5x - 5 combos
      • 42x - 1 dark cross
      • 63x - 5 combos + 1 dark cross
      • 84x - 2 dark crosses
      • 126x - 5 combos + 2 dark crosses
      • 252x (7x6 board only) - 5 combos + 3 dark crosses
    • That's 6 tiers of distinct damage control levels. Sopdet or Parvati should really pose no problems at all for this team.
    What subs should I use?

    The good news is that your existing D.Kanna team will work out of the box when pairing with Aizen. I would say the standard template should contain:



    If you don't have an Escha, Z8 can fit in as well.



    For the flex spot, you would want to slot in another sub with some TPAs. Some viable candidates are:



    Here are some clears I recently had:
    Optimal Burst Board Pattern:
    Hopefully people get to try out this team and have as fun as I have with the team. The ability to TPA + 5 combo through mobs while dark crossing when needed is a really fun play style for me at least.

    P.S. Strictly speaking, I know Aizen x Aizen is objectively a better team than D.Kanna x Aizen, albeit with less HP. This team is a good option to those of us without Aizens.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
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  2. LazarusPD

    LazarusPD forever noob

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    I am going to go try this ... if it works well I might go and roll for an Aizen myself lol.

    Thank you for the suggestion!
     
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  3. Noobzilla

    Noobzilla noobest of the noobs

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    Durga and uevo Okuni
     
  4. Lunasu

    Lunasu Member

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    Thanks. Added to the list.
     
  5. Haku-ku-ku

    Haku-ku-ku Well-Known Member

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    Fascinating!

    I don't know how important the blue RCV boost is, but what about AA Luci who is also uuu? Attacker Okuni (uu) doesn't offer much in the way of RCV unless plussed but he's blue while awoken is green (edit: I see you got Okuni already, actually his main advantage vs awoken is the uu)
     
  6. HappyNoms

    HappyNoms Ogliarchial collectivist

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    YomiDra and Anaphon are both legit subs.
    As is double A.Haku.

    I'm a little curious how it compares to DKanna / YomiDra split, when that MP evo comes to NA, but haven't compared.
     
  7. Lunasu

    Lunasu Member

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    Honestly, if you have Aizen and A.Haku on the team, you don't need any more blue subs. I run a very attack-heavy, low RCV team (D.Kanna/Escha/Satsuki/Satsuki/A.Haku/Aizen) and have no issues with healing. with 3 heart orbs and 5 or 6 combos, that's around 15k HP recovered. I plan on replacing one Satsuki with a Hinomitsuha who has just as non-existent RCV but has 2 fingers for more movement time. I have Typhon Ana inherited on Haku for hearts and a way to make bi-color boards which is way better than tri-color.

    Regarding UUVO AA Lucifer, his awakenings and his active are too crappy to be worth a slot. I would instead put in someone like Lumiel who can kill Predras and change the board.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
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  8. Lunasu

    Lunasu Member

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    D.Kanna x Aizen is much better than D.Kanna x YomiDra in terms of damage control and max damage.

    D.Kanna x Aizen:
    • 21x - Unconditional
    • 31.5x - 5 combos
    • 42x - 1 dark cross
    • 63x - 5 combos + 1 dark cross
    • 84x - 2 dark crosses
    • 126x - 5 combos + 2 dark crosses
    D.Kanna x YomiDra:
    • 7x - Unconditional
    • 10.5x - 5 combos
    • 31.5x - 5 w/ 1 Enhanced
    • 47.25x - 5 combos + 5 w/ 1 Enhanced
    Pairing with Aizen, you can just make a TPA with 5 combos and sweep through most mobs. With YomiDra, you can reach the same multiplier (31.5x) with 5 orbs, but this requires at least one enhanced orb and cannot utilize D.Kanna's 3 TPA awakenings. This makes YomiDra consistently more orb-hungry since you would need a 5+1EO match as well as a TPA (9 total orbs) to do any substantial damage. Not only that, pairing with Aizen would give you an unconditional multiplier that is 3 times higher than pairing with YomiDra (21x vs. 7x).
     
  9. wangatang0830

    wangatang0830 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this is true. Yomidra x DKanna's 47x is very easy to achieve and is plenty for most things. Even if you can't utilize DKanna's triple TPA, when you're using a OE stacked team you're still hitting very hard.

    For the damage potential of Yomidra x DKanna, see my thread:
    http://puzzleanddragonsforum.com/threads/uuevo-yomidra-x-dkanna-hype.99163/

    Yomidra has the advantage of being on-colour all the time and provide 2x rcv to all god type monsters. Not saying Yomidra is better by any means, but Aizen is definitely not 'much better'.

    The 7x is really handy for allow you to just do 3 match on Sopdet and combo hard for more natural orbs to appear.
     
  10. Noobzilla

    Noobzilla noobest of the noobs

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    D.Kanna + Yomidra vs D.Kanna + Aizen...

    Aizen + Aizen for life! On a side note, is Bleach a good anime to watch?
     
  11. Lunasu

    Lunasu Member

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    I get that 47.25x is enough to clear most things. Heck, I clear plenty of things with my 36x Cloud team. Still, you can't really deny the benefits of a max multiplier that is more than two times higher (126x vs. 47.25x), the ability to stack TPA subs in order to pump out damage with just 4 orbs, and the naturally higher unconditional multiplier.

    At the exact same orb counts, pairing with Aizen will always provide more damage.

    D.Kanna x Aizen
    • 3 Orbs - 31.5x (5 combos)
    • 4 Orbs - 31.5x (5 combos, 1 TPA)
    • 5 Orbs - 31.5x (5 combos, 1 TPA) to 63x (5 combos, 1 dark cross)
    • 9 Orbs - 63x (5 combos, 1 dark cross, 1 TPA)
    • 10 Orbs - 84x (2 dark cross) to 126x (5 combos, 2 dark cross)
    • 14 Orbs - 126x (5 combos, 2 dark cross, 1 TPA)
    D.Kanna x YomiDra
    • 3 Orbs - 10.5x (5 combos)
    • 4 Orbs - 10.5x (5 combos, 1 TPA)
    • 5 Orbs - 47.25x (5 combos, 1 5+1E)
    • 9 Orbs - 47.25x (5 combos, 1 5+1E, 1 TPA)
    • 10 Orbs - 47.25x (5 combos, 1 5+1E, 1 TPA)
    • 14 Orbs - 47.25x (5 combos, 1 5+1E, 2 TPA)
    The two benefits of pairing with YomiDra are 1) easier activation 2) more RCV. Outside of those benefits, pairing with Aizen makes more sense for D.Kanna users.
     
  12. wangatang0830

    wangatang0830 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not denying the benefit of higher max multiplier, and frankly I think higher ceiling is amazing. But at the end of the day DKanna co-leader pairing's potential probably caps at Arena 2, and for that purpose, the two advantages for Yomidra that you mentioned actually matter a lot:
    I'm not trying to argue that Yomidra is a better pairing, my previous post was just referring to the bias between:
    and
     
  13. Lunasu

    Lunasu Member

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    Ah, I see. Yes, I guess just matching 5+1E and comboing will yield pretty good damage for the YomiDra pairing so it would be inaccurate to say the pair is orb-hungry. Definitely will need more orbs to match the Aizen pair's damage, but you would be able to clear most mobs with just 5 orbs. I think both pairs are great, but you'll have a higher damage ceiling with Aizen.

    Arena 1 and 2 won't be an issue for either pair, but Arena 3 is probably highly unlikely for D.Kanna unless you are fortunate enough to run into Zeus Dragon.
     
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  14. HappyNoms

    HappyNoms Ogliarchial collectivist

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    I think we can give the damage edge to Aizen, however I can say having run YomiDra split a fair bit that it is relatively breezy to optimal solve most boards, 7-9 combos, and it's unusual to dip to 7 unless the board doesn't have an 8 or I'm lazy, and I'm no rainman savant. So that is often 2-3 combo over cross space issues, for 50-75% boost on the YomiDra split team damage. So they're a bit closer than charted.

    YomiDra cap should also be a five and three TPA, not two, board ratio permitting. And the casual x2 kanna active boost as an option, though one could argue she is inherit active devoted, but these are all minor quibbling.

    You've still persuaded me Aizen, all the above taken into account, is the mildly easier/higher damage lead. Merely that the other splits can do a surprising amount if you put in the extra effort, and we should strive to be as unbiased as possible when comparing.

    I do a lot of 7-8 combo with Kaede, even with 1 heartcross taking up space, when I bother to actually pause a full minute and think through how to manipulate the board. Cross leads are often a pain for space and average 5-6 combos or so run lazy, but do have more combo count flex if a key turn requires it than people typically credit.

    Double cross are a special case, in that it's sufficiently rare to well and truly need that multiplier (and not just be lazy jewel princessing a finish), that I'm willing to pause a moment for the intricate/visualized board solve for 6+ combo there.
     
  15. Orange Crush

    Orange Crush PAD's Nostradamus

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    While I don't have Aizen, Kanna or Yomidra and will prob regret subscribing here I do want to chime in.

    15k hp with a match 3 and combo like mad is slightly less than what my Sarasvati heals. And I would describe that as inadequate for anything more than light stalling (my Saras benifits from 3 hosted heart makers though which your team does not). Bout all it's good for is topping up HP after a trash floor preempt.

    Also have skilled and ran AA Luci before, I find he is kind of under rated. His active is on a low enough cooldown that he serves a surpassing amount of utility. Great offense and also great RCV on a team that as described could really use it.

    Anyway my 2 cents. If your in game experience says otherwise than so be it.
     
  16. Lunasu

    Lunasu Member

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    That's a good point that I did not think about. 2 crosses takes up enough space to limit the number of TPAs to 1 while YomiDra's board will allow up to 3 TPAs on the board with the 5 match. Regardless of that, I guess the argument that for Aizen will do better damage for the same amount of orbs still stands. Both are definitely capable pairings, with Aizen having a higher ceiling, but more difficult activation.

    I can say this is one the reasons I enjoy playing this team so much. When I get to the boss stage, I get to plan out my actives to get the perfect amount of orbs and then take my time solving for 2 crosses and a TPA (which can be pretty challenging based on how clumped up the dark orbs are). The play style is a good mix of mindless combing and a challenging puzzle at the end.
     
  17. Lunasu

    Lunasu Member

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    From my experience with 3 heart orbs, I heal for 15.5k with 5 combos and 17.5k with 6 combos. For me, 5 or 6 combos is not that difficult and is pretty much the bare minimum required to activate for this team anyway. But, I can see that it would be pretty challenging for newer players to constantly hit 5+ combos every turn. Stacking TE awakenings on the team and using the TE badge will help as well.
     
  18. HappyNoms

    HappyNoms Ogliarchial collectivist

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    @Orange Crush

    It just depends on what your typically doing.
    And available box depth.

    15-18 with the option to think harder and high combo an eventful moment for more is fine for most content, but it will fall down every once in a while if you tackle the really hard stuff and need to tank some 25-30k hits several turns while being unlucky jammered or absorbed etc, or a 99 gravity into unsolvable board with 30k incoming, which are things that can just casually happen a few difficult dungeons.

    All other problems having become addressed, I usually try to ideally aim to about full heal, with an 8 combo, which is about what I 900+ days dial in when happenstancing a noncross board. If I'm substantially over, I look at swapping a high rcv sub to a better base active / better hp sub. If I'm under, I consider swapping off a touch of hp / actives cd for more optimal rcv.

    (Kids these days...we get so many time extend awakenings, even rookies can get off to a solid combo count start...)

    The other thing about full healing to overhealing, is that it has prospects when you on rare occasion eat a leader bind and lose part of your rcv multipler. 15k becoming 7.5k can be a pear-shaped peanut butter panic moment, whereas a somewhat luxurious modest overheal 40k coming down to earth for a moment as 20 can be worked with to try-hard walk off the problem. Sometimes. But it's nice to have those modest percentages and edges on your side.
     
  19. ViewtifulGene

    ViewtifulGene Mostly Retired. Still A Lazy Shit.

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    My favorite split lead for Aizen is Hades. He's the only option without sub pool restrictions, and his 75% dark resist frees up active or latent slots that would go toward DQ survival. Also, 5 turns of time extension is pretty fucking boss.

    I dislike Yomigon and Kanna because they exclude Persephone.
     
  20. BurningMan

    BurningMan Dropping the green Bomb

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    I also think the RCV is a little too low with just a haku as dB sub, i have run eschamali, Satsuki, a.okuni, a.haku as subs and stalling was pretty iffy since you can't recover more than 20k HP per turn with just 3 hearts.
     

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