DISCUSSION: Upcoming Monsters/Evolutions/Dungeons/Mechanics

Discussion in 'News & Events' started by DENCHI, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. polarburr

    polarburr monkey see monkey wu

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    There must have been a riot in Japan when that result came out. I mean we’re generally assuming it’ll be either Cotton or Fujin?
     
  2. ambiguous57

    ambiguous57 Well-Known Member

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    I really, really, really want it to be Cotton. Of all the options that could realistically win, she's the only one I would buy.
     
  3. Tyizor

    Tyizor Wandering Planaria

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    I voted for cotton, but a small part of me hopes for Fujin so that I won't be sad when the results come out. Not enough MP rip. I made the mistake of buying Red Myr before the news came out JP side.
     
  4. HappyNoms

    HappyNoms Ogliarchial collectivist

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    I agree with most of this, and I am fine with having luck + skill be a more flexible and more fun design than just naked skill with a sterile zero variance.

    My main bone one of contention and salt is that there are ways of making a dungeon "feel good" that still preserve the underlying mechanics of skill winning out on statistical balance, plus stoning being advantageous, and then there are ways of making a dungeon just "feel bad" and trying to get people to stone by making them miserable.

    Imagine this dungeon existed in two variant parallel worlds.
    1. One which the endfloor had a 14 combo threshold shield.
    2. And another world in which it was DMG/HP tweaked to clear to a natural 9 combo.

    In both these worlds, on average, skillful players will still succeed more often than unskillful players, and among players of roughly equal skill, the one who stones for 100 more runs will encounter luckier variance and score better.

    The essential value is the population of players interested in a crown, and not the dungeons design, save that designs that make you vomit a little in the back of your mouth broadly decrease general engagement and lower the overall population.

    The 14 comboshield world is basically just miserable, and makes starkly obvious how nakedly greedy the stone-to-win scheme is, whereas the other world feels reasonably good to finish the dungeon while still presenting you with the challenge that other players you are competing against are skillful and driven and have outscored you.

    You can stone equal amounts in either case. If the pool of players interested in crowns is larger than the X percent cutoff, they will stone. "good design" makes the dungeon a fun experience that feels like competition, and bad design is either accidental troll filled garbage, or maliciously designed to prey upon excessive misery and randomness.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  5. bp1976

    bp1976 Pittsburgh, PA Born and Raised

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    You, my friend, have hit the nail on the head as to why I dont chase crowns.

    I agree with the rest of your post also, but wanted to highlight what I thought was a MOST excellent point.
     
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  6. CloudStrife

    CloudStrife Well-Known Member

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    This is also why playing the dragonbound dungeon is possibly one of the worst experiences in the game. BS mechanics designed to just instakill any team in the game combined with a lack of guaranteed drop. You end up stoning for a dungeon in hopes of something dropping and then it doesn't happen. If it was 100% drop on a random color I would be ok with the stones. As it is now it is designed to make people miserable.
     
  7. bp1976

    bp1976 Pittsburgh, PA Born and Raised

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    Damn right strife. I havent even tried that dungeon yet and dont plan to.
     
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  8. samuelburtt

    samuelburtt mono-green advocate

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    Snowglobe invades rate seems pretty epic. Like almost 50%? Anyone got stats on this?
     
  9. NewToPAD

    NewToPAD Active Member

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    I ran 3 of them and got an invade on my 2nd 1. I used it on my Myr for the eventual/hopeful SA coming to it for a chance at FUA.
     
  10. CloudStrife

    CloudStrife Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. I did more than a full stam bar in coop the other day and it was more like 25%. It was good but you seem to have been luckier than we were.

    Edit: Never mind. You aren't talking Valentines because thats over. You mean SDR. Hopefully it is that good.
     
  11. xer 21

    xer 21 Mathematically the Worst Player on the Forums

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    Im at 3/5 invade rate.
     
  12. Carlos R. Marti-Figueroa

    Carlos R. Marti-Figueroa Well-Known Member

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    Preach. That dungeon is garbage. So much RNG and BS mechanics. Worst part is the dismal droprates. I would be ok with the stones as well (even though gentleman aren't really good) is they at least were guaranteed drop or better rates at least.
     
  13. xer 21

    xer 21 Mathematically the Worst Player on the Forums

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    No one realized it but the osc was so key.
     
  14. Freddyfudrucker

    Freddyfudrucker Well-Known Member

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    A few did:

    https://puzzleanddragonsforum.com/threads/one-shot-challenge-results.105684/#post-1567852

    OSC was key if you got the spawn you wanted. I ran over 20 times up until it expired and had no such luck.

    Eventually got it in Cataclysmic DR. But as mentioned above that dungeon is the epitome of GH misery and randomness @HappyNoms mentions.

    And the reward? Chrys and her mat sitting in my box. Waiting for an evo.

    Neat...
     
  15. CloudStrife

    CloudStrife Well-Known Member

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    I randomly got the dark one I needed in OSC on the first try so I was lucky. Evo mats should not be that hard to get. If a lower tier version of a monster can’t get the mats to evolve itself you’re doing it wrong.
     
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  16. chiubag

    chiubag Well-Known Member

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    I ran the OSC 21 times and never saw Diara. It was balls.
     
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  17. sgt502

    sgt502 ばかぷれーやー

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  18. xer 21

    xer 21 Mathematically the Worst Player on the Forums

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    Its suck too cause all the gentlemen evos (except yy who gets a second 7c) are pretty underwhelming.
     
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  19. CloudStrife

    CloudStrife Well-Known Member

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    I am looking forward to them for the sake of variety but they aren't exactly world beaters.
     
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  20. HappyNoms

    HappyNoms Ogliarchial collectivist

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    I'm hype to see how laughably bad the "shows three combos" implementation is.

    I mean, how do you even, when cascade combo are the most efficient path/combo style a majority of the time, and the elevators and fall throughs for that happen in various orb positions multiple rows away.

    Seem likely to be some rubbish highly suboptimal path in a clumbsy swirl style that as often as not fucks your board for an optimal solve or full solve.

    I am curious though how it behaves on the dungeon that does a full board blackout.

    I will also lol if it ever tosses in some diagonals. That would be delicious sauce.

    Other than that I'm never running the sample and not some vastly better x2 7cc card, so I guess we wait and see what actual card that isn't some chochobo clown party weirdo picks up 10c.
     

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