DISCUSSION: Upcoming Monsters/Evolutions/Dungeons/Mechanics

Discussion in 'News & Events' started by DENCHI, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. Flandre

    Flandre Scarlet Devil Staff Member

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    It was a very small minority of LL fans that reacted negatively to that collab, most people really loved the art and the way the characters were portrayed in the collab. It just got blown out of proportion because the first reactions a lot of people saw were the bad apples from JP Twitter.
     
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  2. RajaNagaSoz

    RajaNagaSoz Maximum Casual

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    I'm sure that's how it is with most of the "bad fanbases" out there. a small group of very vocal idiots kick up a fuss, and then everyone outside of it sees that and runs the heck away. Actually, that's probably just about every fanbase of anything. Especially if it's facebook or twitter. Every game i ever pay any attention to, usually it's one or both that are just completely terrible, and it's sites like this one, and sometimes reddit that have the people who aren't nuts.
     
  3. Vaedriel

    Vaedriel Lost in the Shadows

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  4. sgt502

    sgt502 ばかぷれーやー

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    Saline's CD skill should be 18. Dios and Surtr is at 16, M.Goemon is at 17 so why should she gets one CD longer? That said, at the moment she is the only card with full light board change.
     
  5. ko300zx

    ko300zx Well-Known Member

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    Toshiro is 17 as well. Who knows why they do what they do. Not like I'm gonna ever roll one lol.
     
  6. sgt502

    sgt502 ばかぷれーやー

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    Mega Awoken Ryune, Sylvie and R.Myr animated Evo along with some buff to other cards: Ilmina, Uruka and Planar. Combo orbs also makes its debut with Ryune and Sylvie.

     
  7. BurningMan

    BurningMan Dropping the green Bomb

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    Looks like I can safely trade my ryune and sylvie lol
     
  8. Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    What a thoroughly horrifying batch of cards. Not only are MA Ryune and Sylvie absolutely awful, RMyr sets a precedent for using the extremely limited Numen gems for other evos.

    Isn't that nice?
     
  9. FoxtrotFool

    FoxtrotFool Well-Known Member

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    I think the Numen gems will have better access. It’s unreasonable to create an upgrade with materials that is plainly unavailable.
     
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  10. Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    Well, they did come back as bosses of an OSC later on in JP, and they are technically purchasable for 3 rainbow medals. But the OSC is only one possible copy, which limits supply quite a bit, and there's no way they'll expect us to buy them.
     
  11. ko300zx

    ko300zx Well-Known Member

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    4x HP, 196x Attack, +4 sec move time. Same HP and attack (but with rows) as Zapan but no RCV restrictions and the move time addition. Yusuke active for dark and blue/green and light.

    Where's the awful part? Lol, you guys can trade yours away. Preferably to me.

    The ranking change will be interesting. I hope the extra points aren't too crazy. Not sure how I feel about that. Double skill boost/TE awakenings working for gemstones now is good though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
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  12. BonerChamp69

    BonerChamp69 I'm huge

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    B
    Because only cards with 3 7cs are allowed to be used obviously....
    I'm a little underwhelmed I'll admit but I will try them out for sure.
    Rmyr(my baby) getting a uvo is dope but I don't like the reskin art. However going to an effective 4/256/64 is great. The rcv is fucking stupid lol so unnecessary. Also the 12s ctw makes her base active actually useful now. Which is awesome I hated holding the orb for 7 seconds. Can't wait for RCotton to get 7ccc.
    Seems like every other mega awoken uvo will be great and the others will be ok.
    Sonias- Awesome!
    Odins- k.
    DMeta- Holy shit!
    Ryune- cautiously optimistic meh.
    Please don't screw up Dkali......
     
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  13. ko300zx

    ko300zx Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that's the problem. Just because Dmeta got some absurd buff doesn't mean everyone needs one. Every new evo doesn't have to break the game. The amount of whining and crying I've seen on Discord and Reddit over these new evos is hilarious. Not like any of them are going to play anything other than Dmeta or Yusuke, or whatever else tier lists tell them they have to play anyways. They would have had to be better than either of those for people to care, and that's just stupid.

    I get interested in these evos but I already know what's going to happen. I'll make one then I'll spend days refreshing my friends list hoping to find one, then give up when none show up. Then I'll spend the next week watching JP videos of people clearing AA with them while I farm arenas with Yusuke waiting for the next round of evos to repeat the process.
     
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  14. YamaKyu

    YamaKyu Go play some cross leads you cowards :p

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    Pretty exciting news !
    • First and foremost : bonus points for matching exotic patterns ?! FINALLY. FINAL-fucking-LY. I get that the amount of points for each pattern will depend on each ranking but honestly I don't care too much at this point ; the fact that this feature exist is fucking great news in itself.
      You might know how I hate the 7c-focused meta and all, and I planned on making a big thread on how I would like GungHo to break it, and actually, "getting extra points for matching special patterns" was one of my biggest point. I was about to bitch about how I don't think GungHo is willing to address this big issue but they just burned me so hard on the process, like with the strength of a supernova. And I'm so glad they did.
    • Mega Awoken Sylvie and -most importantly- Ryune : I can't wait. Meridionalis X Ryune is going to be bonkers again. I can't wait to play rows again, with both a HP and RCV boost !
    • Planar LS buff ? Planar LS buff ! It might not sound much like it but x3,5 per cross instead of x3 is a quite massive buff. I honestly didn't expect them to go that way and only buff the more "make 6 combos" part of her LS from x2,5 to x3 or maybe x3,5 at most. But x3,5 per cross ?! Niiiiiiiiice.
      I really really really really really [...] really really hope I'll get one next time Heroine REM hits NA. I can't miss this opportunity. Planar is waiting for me ;;
     
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  15. Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    Problem is rows are just bad, and Ryune/Sylvie share the weaknesses of Vraska/Gronia without the strengths that drive them.

    Let me defend those claims one by one, because I'm not here to slander these cards. First off, rows: I'm not saying they're bad because they're not 7c. Well, I sort of am, but only in the sense that the reason they are bad is the same reason that 7c is good. Rows require a lot of dedication for a damage boost that quickly drops off at high row counts (i.e. low return on your rows once you get into the teens). They also require you to match in a specific way, which reduces your combo count, leaving you susceptible to combo shields and ultimately hurting your damage output even more.

    Now for Vraska, Gronia, and Barb&Julie comparisons:

    Gronia is strong because with 7c and an L, she hits a respectable multiplier on the leaders, and she can run Ragdra for huge killers to amp damage further. Her tankiness is a huge drawing point, but the shield + HP + RCV is what lets that happen. At 4x HP without any RCV or shield, she does not have the same versatile tankiness of Gronia, which is what allows her to be strong.

    But wait, Vraska is also 4x HP 1x RCV no shield! Okay, let's look at why she can get away with that, and if Ryune/Sylvie can as well. Vraska can get away with the lack of consistency in her tanking by means of her active, which grants 3 turns of increased RCV. With the RCV boost, she reaches respectable RCV to heal up after big hits or on scary floors. B&J are the same way, but with one huge advantage -- Kuroyuri. B&J have options, such as Mizutsune or Mel, to deal with RCV, but Kuro loop is far and away their best option in this regard.

    Now, let's compare this to Ryune/Sylvie. Ryune gets Mizutsune or Mel, which helps for sure, but Mizu < Vraska because it's stored in a single active rather than two and doesn't come with a killboard, nor with strong awakenings for the team. Mel is fine, but the RCV TPAs pale in comparison to an RCV boost active, and she again has no offensive awakenings on a team whose damage comes solely from stacking as many of a particular offensive awakening as possible. Sylvie gets the even shorter end of the stick, pretty much relying on Vraska as an RCV option, which is not the worst but again lacks the correct offensive awakening and is a single slot, not two to use as needed. I suppose Sylvie could run dual Tardis with Kuro system, but at that point why aren't you running Vraska? If you have 2x Tardis 2x Kuro and the Sylvie to lead with, you must have Vraska, or at least Gronia who can somewhat run the same setup without resorting to rows.

    Finally, note how every single one of the 4x HP 1x RCV leads to date (well, the viable ones) are bicolor; a row is the same orb hungriness of Yog, who relies on active spam to get through dungeons without burning out of orbs. And sure, you could stall a couple turns here and there, but now you're relying on the RCV that is already the team's glaring weak point.

    My point is not that Ryune/Sylvie are worthless. Hell, I'll probably run Ryune just for a change of pace. But they are incredibly disappointing considering the treatment of DMeta and the Sonias, because fundamentally rows will be bad as long as alternatives exist. If there is a good row leader in the near future, it will be in spite of being a row lead, not because of it.
     
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  16. ko300zx

    ko300zx Well-Known Member

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    Rows are bad relative to the 7c meta, but rows are still capable. I can dig up countless videos of row teams taking on AA. It's not as brain dead as making the same old 7c boards, but they can do quite well. My point was simply that they are not "awful" evos but if we are going to compare everything to Dmeta, or the 7c meta, well then everything is going to be awful for a long while. While all of those things are true about RCV options, I'll reiterate that not everything has to be the best. The game gets so boring grinding the same team over and over. I hate that if I want to play something I find fun, I have to bug a friend to put it up, because my friend's list is only made up of what tier lists say are the best teams. Leo is a perfect example there as well. He'll never compare to Dmeta but he can stomp the shit out of AA too. Still haven't seen one on my friend's list though because hell, why buy an A tier lead (used to be S before Dmeta) when Dmeta will be out soon?

    We need to get out of the mindset that giving new cards the Dmeta and Sonias treatment is a good thing. They need to come up with some row fixes, not move away from rows. Variety keeps the game interesting. The combo awakening they got was a good thought, but not good implementation. Don't see why they can't just build combos into the leader skill based on certain match requirements. There has to be some better ideas than the combo awakening. We'll see how bad it is in practice this week.

    Also <---- 2 Tardis, enough MP for 2 Kuroyuri, Sylvie...but no Gronia (or Blonia) or Vraska. :D :D :D
     
  17. sgt502

    sgt502 ばかぷれーやー

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    GH needs to buff row awakenings to make it more viable other than farming purposes.
     
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  18. Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    Well, I disagree with paragraph 1 but agree with 2. I think it's silly not to compare new things to other current things; any card is groundbreaking if you're not comparing it to the top tier stuff. Of course it doesn't have to be S tier, but MAs are historically pretty exciting, and these two are pretty outdated before even coming out. It's not that they're bad, but compared to the relevant cards of the modern day they are underwhelming, especially for highly-anticipated Mega Awokens.

    I do, however, agree that the answer is to fix rows rather than ditching them. Maybe a buff to the multiplier from matching >3 orbs in a set, to push the falloff range of rows up a bit, as well as making them maybe 15% up from 10% damage buff apiece. Also, combo orb awakening is atrocious; make it 9+ rather than 12 exactly and now we might be talking. I still feel like skyfalling a random color combo orb kinda sucks though, maybe make it just a +1c buff next turn flat? Less new and interesting but significantly more useful.
     
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  19. ko300zx

    ko300zx Well-Known Member

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    Comparing to Dmeta is silly because Dmeta is broken. If every new card should be "good" compared to the most recent meta-breaking card, power creep would be uncontrollable. I mean, sure, you can make a comparison, but it's not fair to immediately go to "awful." It would be more fair to make a comparison to all the recent Mega Awokens. The Odins are pretty much ass too, so I certainly wouldn't call them awful compared to them. Gronia and Blonia are pretty meh these days so not bad compared to them either although they are a bit dated at this point. I'm not saying they are great, but promise you I'll be able to find a vid of them both beating AA by the end of the day tomorrow which is nothing terrible.

    They need to buff them substantially then go back and update all cards with them to have fewer row awakenings while adding more versatile ones. Then they need to improve the combo drop awakening and rows could be very strong. They can't just buff them though because they are still stuck with the same problems as now, they just will hit harder.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
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  20. RajaNagaSoz

    RajaNagaSoz Maximum Casual

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    Row leads just need more varied bonuses for matching the rows. It's there in other leaders, like matching hearts for damage, or two colors for a defense bump. :misc15:

    Make a row lead that gets more bonuses for more orbs. 4x atk when matching 6+ orbs, 2x rcv when matching 8+, shield when matching 12+, FUA when matching 15+. Add a new Row-combo awakening, that makes each row count as two combos. (and watch rows become meta in SECONDS) (that's probably over:misc19:...) maybe the "first" row? :misc3:

    To promote 7x6 row teams, maybe each row matched gives +1 sec of move time on the next turn. (Or how about an awakening for that?) :misc10:

    Imagine +5% orb drop rate of the color of the row matched? :misc14::misc12:

    When matching a row, enhance all orbs of that color.

    So many weird ideas to try!
     
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