Evolving in the tank era

Discussion in 'P&D Discussion' started by Haku-ku-ku, Dec 19, 2016.

  1. Haku-ku-ku

    Haku-ku-ku Well-Known Member

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    With dungeon mechanics that combine heavy hits and damage ceilings, it seems hard to imagine how to roll back (or move past) the tank era. But here are some quick thoughts:

    Shields. But maybe not shields that would be very useful for tank teams. Perhaps they add a fixed amount of HP to your "natural" HP for some duration of time?

    Better archangels. Basically a stronger pairing for glass cannon leads. E.g. what if Gabe was 2/2.5/2... he would be a more attractive partner for Sarasvati - 2/25/2. And not OP if self-partnered: 4/5.25/4. Indeed, you could make him 2/3/2 and still fall short of Myr on his own.

    AA Luci / Anubis would be most interesting!

    Thoughts? Ideas?
     
  2. Petrous

    Petrous Puppy Kicker

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    I am sofisticate enough to learn from master?
     
  3. graps

    graps Well-Known Member

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    make the archangel 2x to all stat and halve damage for heart cross

    16/?/16 lead :^)

    2/25/2 for 3 blue matches is pretty trash tbh
    krishna is 2.25/45/2.25 for the exact same thing
     
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  4. ViewtifulGene

    ViewtifulGene Mostly Retired. Still A Lazy Shit.

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    Ultimately, tank teams need better DPS options. Note that RaDra now has partial activation and Myr now has a Quadra Donger in Kanna. I think we ultimately need more sub pool buffs so some of the megawhale benefits to Myr and RaDra become more democratized. Ultimately, we need a way for the sturdy leads to not choose between grinding forever for orbs and using necessary actives prematurely.

    I think subs will ultimately need to trend more toward row/prong/sparkle hybrids so you aren't grinding forever if you don't have your lead's only fitting option for 3+ dongs. And leads will need better partial activation clauses to mitigate the need to stall. Row leads should scale more like Cao and less like Nepdra.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  5. BonerChamp69

    BonerChamp69 I'm huge

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    I've been thinking about what's gonna happen with the arhangels. I hope the replace the 4 auto heals with bind immunity, a bind clear and a finger. I think they should be 2x to all stats with another 2-3x for like 2 heart matches or something? Or for 2-3 on color matches or connected orb etc.
     
  6. ViewtifulGene

    ViewtifulGene Mostly Retired. Still A Lazy Shit.

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    Re: Archangels-

    Find: Autoheal
    Replace: Sparkle

    Perfect.
     
  7. MisterDrgn

    MisterDrgn You can't take the sky from me. Staff Member

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    Seems like the OP wanted to move away from heart cross and other tanky leads and everyone else missed the point.

    That said, I think the only way to bring spike teams back (as top tier leads) is to introduce dungeons where you have to deal massive damage every turn (or even every few turns) or you will die regardless of your defensive stats, and that doesn't sound very fun.
     
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  8. Iluvatar

    Iluvatar Semi-IAP..damn you GH

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    500mill hp bosses!
     
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  9. Haku-ku-ku

    Haku-ku-ku Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is the problem... it doesn't seem like we can escape the tank ratchet. So my question is basically how we can have diversity in this new era.
     
  10. philsov

    philsov has sufficient privileges to post here

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    How'd we have diversity in the older eras? You mixed up leader activations, for the most part. In the era of sakuya / LL Ra / DL Anubis / Bastet / etc it pretty much boiled down to color match or combo count, with a sprinkling of love for the Heroes. None of them had HP/RCV boosting so it was ease of activation vs damage in a linear tradeoff, with the heroes mixing it up between periods of high burst and cooldown regeneration versus leads with lower burst but higher sustained output.

    What I'd like to see more of is additional perks to leader skill. Myr's +2 movement is huge, and I'm enjoying the anti-resolve aspect of , however niche. The next wave of new cards do some wonky stuff like make the board 7x6 and that one dude with all the killers is also cool. I'd like to see more stuff in these veins, tbh.

    Also my major wish right now is to have a lead that gives a maybe 3% damage shield for every combo it makes, along with a combo multiplier in the vein of bastet/anubis/kushi, capping at 10 combos? The ultimate swiss army knife :D (or mary sue, idk)
     
  11. graps

    graps Well-Known Member

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    The 16x stuff was a joke. But honestly, 2.5x attack is pathetically weak. 5x is completely reasonable seeing as there is 4/144/4 Kinnikuman and 4/x/4 heartcross. That way, they pair with the ridiculous damage leads for usually 40-60+x attack which is much better.
     
  12. Noobzilla

    Noobzilla noobest of the noobs

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    More no RCV dungeons that are long and heart break pre-empts.
     
  13. Haku-ku-ku

    Haku-ku-ku Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this, pretty much. The thing about, for example, the 4-match and 7x6 leads is that doubling up is redundant. I was just thinking about Luci/Noctis. What if Luci was 2/2/2 AND a 7x6 lead? That would make him a workable partner for Noctis (those uuu would finally matter), or Anubis even.
     
  14. MisterDrgn

    MisterDrgn You can't take the sky from me. Staff Member

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    To be fair, I think there's been a trend overall towards more diversity in this game over time. It's just that there always tends to be one team or 2-3 teams that dominate in terms of popularity, if not quality.

    Like, heart cross may be better than every other team except RaDra, but there are still a _lot_ of teams you can use if you aren't running Arena 3. And we have things like heart cross, color cross, rainbow, match lots of one color, 4 or 5 minimum match, etc. Yes, they aren't all at the same level, but they're still ridiculously strong if you aren't just farming Annihilation difficulty.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  15. ikrol

    ikrol Well-Known Member

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    I'd still like to see a leader skill that provides a Kushi or Anubis combo multiplier (or any damage multiplier, really) along with a scaling shield that gives something like 10% at 6 combos, 20% at 7, 30% at 8, 40% at 9, and 50% at 10. So 10 combos would provide the same as a cross shield, but there would be no real requirement of particular orbs to match. The shield strength for combo count could be tweaked, of course.
     
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  16. Wishy

    Wishy SHRAPNEL

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    What they need to do is color/combo leads that provide some kind of HP bonus and RCV/ATK bonus when reaching some condition. These leads should also force turn time to a lower amount such as the basic 4s or 5s. Then again, getting 8/9 combos with these should give a great multiplier.

    Problem with many leads like Anubis is that getting the maximum amount of combos out of any board is easy if you have good subs. For instance, I have no trouble getting 8 combos while also doing TPAs and cross with Ronove because my turns are over 10 seconds long, remember when people ran Anubis with Yomi for CTW? My turns are LONGER than that. Then again there's no way I can do that with a 4~5s long turn, which is why I'm saying this.

    It would work as a niche and revive skill based leads.
     
  17. Paul Blank

    Paul Blank Defeater

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    Coop seems to be the answer to using glass cannon teams for harder content. Coop gives the boost to HP most glass cannon teams need. Then there's the 15%HP badge.

    I don't think they'll build away from how things are now but rather only go further into it. Power creep has turned into tank creep.
     
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  18. Haku-ku-ku

    Haku-ku-ku Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I do think this is true, and it is better now than before, despite what i suspect is a smaller player base.
    I'm afraid this attempt to push coop was true, and will get me to quit PAD if it gets out of hand, though I feel the pressure has stopped.
     
  19. Haku-ku-ku

    Haku-ku-ku Well-Known Member

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    EVA Kawori/Kali is an experiment in this direction. .. shield for RBGDH match. Let's see how it does, tho I prefer the elegance of your proposal
     
  20. Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    Damage shields and resolve are the reason tank teams are so good. Glass cannon teams just die to those mechanics, while heart cross can laugh them off. If damage shields and resolves became much rarer, you could bring high damage teams to more dungeons with less fear of an autodeath spawn. The newly announced card that nulls damage shields for a turn is a great start.
     
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