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Discussion in 'Team Guides' started by YamaKyu, Feb 17, 2019.
Where the hell did you see that ? There's nothing on Reddit or pad.protic.site...
Details are here o/
There's been tons of news inbetween so it's only normal for you to not find it
FF collab new cards and buffs were just announced and holy supernova there's a lot of good stuff, even for Karin Kanzuki.
Unfortunately I'm pretty unavailable right now and for a little while, yet there are a lot of stuff to cover, but I'll very likely be 100% done with FF units by the time the collab reach NA.
There's some nice stuff for Karin Kanzuki. Same, I can't review it *now* but it'll absolutely be done by the time we get it @NA.
ON A SIDE NOTE.
I've been busy these past months but I'm working lately on a "full" rewrite + reorganization of the main guide post.
A lot of the information will be the same, but there will be new parts, and especially guidelines and tips to beat Training Arena, A4, A5, AA1 and AA2.
'Should be done in 2 weeks or so ?
June bride REM is still live and Wedding Rushana is legit really good for Karin Kanzuki. It's not a "key sub" as in you can totally get better cards to do the same things, but she does a lot of things and she does it well.
→ High HP sub
→ with a team HP+ awakening
→ low-ish CD AS on which you can inherit onto
→ Skill boosts ! (very important for AA2)
→ Even if she's only light sub-attribute, she's still a very strong VDP sub because she can get 3 VDP awakenings (x5,21 damage per light box, that's higher than Ed !)
Will make an actual review about her on the main post soon-ish hopefully.
NY YOMI HP BUFF IS LIVE. IT'S AMAZING.
I litteraly went from 65k HP to 70k because I have so many teamp HP+ awakenings it's crazy
Hey there, I'm a bit late but here is my "review" of the Draconic Orchestra REM for Karin Kanzuki !
TL;DR : it's not too great, as nothing is a perfect combination of awakenings, stats and AS, but it has usable stuff. Don't roll for Karin Kanzuki subs in this REM, but be aware that some cards *are* valid Karin Kanzuki subs. Details below.
Spoiler: Draconic Orchestra review for Karin Kanzuki
This special REM isn't the best for Karin Kanzuki but it still has nice cards to have as actual Karin subs. It might not be worth rolling specifically for them as none of them are "key sub worthy" (except maybe Mariel), but be aware that if you roll some, they might have a use you didn't suspect.
Let's get to it !
Mariel, base form (Draconic Orchestra REM)
ADDED VALUE : Good HP and team HP+ awakening, good boar change, VDP.
Mariel is one of these card which both forms are equally interesting but for different reasons. Base form brings good 6k7 HP and valuable team HP+ awakenings, but her TPAs could have been better off being something else. Though, TPA is certainly a usable offensive awakening, even for Karin Kanzuki so it's not tooooo bad.
Mariel's board change is pretty nice as it will likely allow for direct triple cross VDPing (might need to be fixed sometimes though).
In general I wouldn't recommend this form unless you're desperate for HP ; the team HP+ awakenings will bring more HP to the team than ult Mariel's self HP difference.
RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Tape resist, unless you already cover it, in which case pick VDP just in case.
Mariel, ult form (Draconic Orchestra REM)
ADDED VALUE : Great HP, big VDP power
In her ult form, Mariel gets more HP but looses her team HP+ awakenings, which is kind of a bummer. But in exchange she gets 2 natural VDP, which is amazing in combination with her stupidly high base ATK stat and 7c. Her board change remains very nice. She is a great VDP sub for Karin Kanzuki.
Another nice thing about her is she covers water attribute, in case you want to build rainbow for guard break. This attribute isn't as easy to cover than wood or dark, so that is pretty nice :>
RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : It's one of the rare case where I would recommend VDP ; 3 VDP means x15.625 base damage for a VDP. That is more than a cross. Like, you should be able to kill triple cross stuff with 2 crosses because of this, especially with so much base ATK. If you don't pick VDP, go for tape resist, unless you already have it, in which case obviously 7c is permanent damage addition.
Phenon (Draconic Orchestra REM)
ADDED Value : Great HP, hazard resistance, VDP, unique utility active skill, inheritance base.
Had Phenon been light main and dark sub, she would have borderline been a key sub. Her HP is great, her awakenings and SA are amazing, especially the resist awakenings, and she has great stats overall (massive ATK for VDPing stuff). But most importantly she is one of the rare (if not the first) cards who can shorten the "can't match X color" hazard. And if you don't need it, the combination of her great stats, awakening and short-ish CD makes her a pretty darn nice inheritance base, which will bring a lot of value to the team !
RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Cloud/tape resist if your team doesn't already have it. Else, VDP is amazing for her as it would compensate the fact that light is only her sub-attribute (damage is 3 times lower for sub-attributes), making her an actual fully fledged VDP sub for Karin.
Lotta Lotta (Draconic orchestra REM)
ADDED Value : Great HP + team HP+ awakenings.
Lotta Lotta is the main prize of this REM in general, and for Karin she is an ok card but for different reasons. Lotta Lotta's main value is usually her massive x100 counterattack AS, but Karin Kanzuki can't make the greatest use of it since she has "so few" HP.
Good thing is Lotta Lotta is herself a nice HP stick. Which form will bring more HP to your team is hard to estimate, as her base form has massive 11k HP while ult form has 7k and 2 team HP+ : in a team with 50k HP, +10% HP is 5k, so that's better than Lotta Lotta's personal 4k HP difference, so it really just depends on your HP without her.
If you're not desperate for her base form HP difference, make her ult form : with her 3 SB, finger and most importantly her non-light L-unlock she has far more value than her base form.
With all that said, keep in mind she isn't a super great sub. Take note that her AS doesn't make fire, and she doesn't have enough fingers to be a sub that you want to replace someone with. Only use her if you're lacking options.
RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity, unless you can put a bind immunity weapon on her. These 10% team HP+ are too precious to afford to be lost with a bind.
These will be added to the main post shortly.
On a side I'm still working on the rewrite of the guide. I'm starting to see the end, I hope I'll be done by the end of the week !
(very likely not OTL)
As usual, feel free to disagree with me or add to the discussion !
I just finished reviewing Final Fantasy collab for Karin Kanzuki and, like, we all know FF collab is amazing in general with tons of great cards for a lot of different purposes.
We know. I know.
But I'm still amazed at how good it is for Karin Kanzuki, considering how niche of a card she is and how she needs specific stuff. Yet, FF is great for her, I love it.
I highly recommend to roll for Karin Kanzuki subs/assist in this collab, as it has a lot of value even for her. I mean, this sole collab has 2 key Karin subs (which happen to be twice the same card unfortunately xD).
Spoiler: Final Fantasy collab review for Karin Kanzuki
Some of the pics are provided by MiruBot, which doesn't display the stats at lvl110+297, so you need to add about 1000 HP, 500 ATK and 300 RCV to get the final stats.
Other pics are from https://pad.protic.site/final-fantasy-collab-returns-details/
Big thanks to everyone maintaining these resources !
Ult Aerith (Final Fantasy Collab) (key sub)
ADDED VALUE : Inheritance base, good HP + team HP+ awakenings
WHY IS SHE SO GOOD OMG. I used to think it would be reeeaaaally hard to make a better inheritance base than Tohsaka Rin (who's excellent at this) but THEY STILL DID IT.
She has everything she needs to be the best inheritance base for Karin : good stats, an actual 1 CD AS and good awakenings, namely, 3 freakin team HP+ awakes. Amazing.
Don't forget to slap some SDR onto her so that you don't loose your inherited skill.
RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Depends on what your team lacks most. It's the exact same choice as the badge ; either matching time (super finger) or HP (team HP+). Just don't pick 7c.
Pixel Aerith (Final Fantasy Collab) (key sub)
ADDED VALUE : Good VDP power, good HP, good AS.
Pixel Aerith's main added value is VDPing stuff. She has 2 VDPs to compensate her low-ish (in today's standard) base ATK, and will hit hard against dragons thanks to her killer, making her a potent VDP sub to bring into A4 or AA2 (dragon callers). Her AS will unlock your board, which is nice, while also spawning 9 orbs to either VDP or just fix a poor board.
What makes her a key sub is all I have said here has no counterpart (except maybe the "only good" HP) as her awakes are totally fitting for Karin, and her AS can be inherited onto for something stronger. A pretty darn good set, making her an excellent sub all around.
HOWEVER. She has less value than her ult form counterpart so if you only have one, keep her in ult form, not in pixel form.
RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Any, really. Super finger is obviously great because it's a resource Karin needs. Team HP+ is obviously great because it's HP Karin definitely needs. And even 7c is a nice choice for once as Pixel Aerith main value is VDPing stuff.
Ult Tifa (Final Fantasy Collab)
ADDED VALUE : Big HP, good AS, matching time, VDP
Tifa would have been a key sub, if not for her 4 TPAs. Other than that her set is pretty impressive. With almost 8k HP, an AS which makes light while shielding for 3 turns (short-ish CD of only 8 turns), 2 secs of matching time, and a natural VDP (though her VDP power is only moderate) Tifa's kit is super solid. She has a bit of everything, similarly to Xmas Ilmina, but her 4 TPAs feel wasted. Still an excellent sub.
RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Super Finger. VDP is fine too if you're already sitting on a comfy amount of matching time and you're lacking a VDP sub in your team. Else just pick super finger.
Ult Yuna (Final Fantasy colla)
ADDED VALUE : +3 seconds of matching time, good shield
Had her HP not been so low (only 4k7) she would have been a key sub : she is the first ever card to be able to add 3 natural seconds of matching time to the team, which is even more amazing when you take into consideration the fact that it doesn't relies on SA. What a time to play PAD. Yuna's AS is also pretty nice, as Karin can definitely make good use of at 2-turns 50% shield.
It really is a bummer that she has so little HP. Also I wish those 7c were something else but you can't have everything. She's already pretty darn nice as is. She also covers water, if you're interested in building rainbow.
RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity. Protect these 3 secs of matching time at all cost. VDP if you have a bind immunity assist inherited onto her.
Base Yuna (Final Fantasy collab)
ADDED VALUE : matching time, hazard resists, good shield
It's still a bummer that she's so frail, and this form loses 1.5 secs of matching time for not being her ult form. But she still has her great shield, and she gets 20% resistance to all hazards in exchange, making her a great card to have to facilitate resisting everything.
Dem HP though...
RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity. It's not as crucial as for ult Yuna, but like, this Yuna would only have little VDP power, would you pick VDP, and Karin Kanzuki already has a FUA so you might as well pick bind immunity. It's always important to protect you TE sticks anyway, especially if they also happen to have a shield and hazard resistance.
Pixel Light Cecil (Final Fantasy Collab)
ADDED VALUE : VDP
Only play her if you lack better VDP options, as she'll significantly drag your HP down (only 4k8), though she does have a team HP+ to "compensate". Her board change is nice but also doesn't make fire so it needs to be fixed in order to VDP stuff.
RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity.
Tifa equip (Final Fantasy collab)
Contender for best equip for Karin. It's simply amazing.
Would you imagine an assist with 2 team HP+ awakenings, which spawns an astonishing 14 orbs (12 in 6x5) while also doubling the team's matching time ? I wouldn't. It is simply amazing.
What makes it especially good is this active skill is an incredible board fixer : you can either just match 2 crosses with it (10 lights), or use it to reach 3 crosses if you already had at least 1 light on the board.... but most importantly 14 orbs is exactly a VDP + a cross. In a single active skill. Which also doubles the matching time so that you can actually match all this stuff.
Also stat boost because it's light.
Aerith equip (Final Fantasy collab)
Similarly to Shirou equip, Aerith equip adds 40% to both blind (nice) and poison (ok). No jammer coverage is sad but you still get a precious finger out of it and most importantly she's an inheritable odindra, and that in itself compensates the lack of jammer resistance (which can be addressed in other ways). The board change is however not the best thing for Karin, but you'll still get about 2 crosses (average) out of it, and it's fixable if you need more.
Dark Cecil equip (Final Fantasy Collab)
40% blind resist, bind immunity, deactivation of enemy's attribute absorb and a light heavy board change are features you wouldn't expect to be slapped onto a single equip, yet, that is the case.
Light Cecil equip (Final Fantasy Collab)
40% jammer resist, bind immunity, deactivation of enemy's damage absorb (fujin) and a light heavy board change are features you wouldn't expect to be slapped ont- OH WAIT.
Even better : the 25 turns of cooldown will prevent it to come up if you don't want it to, for skill delay buffering purposes. Also great HP boost (7k base). Amazing.
Yuna equip (Final Fantasy collab)
Not sure you would want to turn such a great card into an equip (that is a respectable choice however) but if you do, you'ld get access to an amazing 5 turns 50% shield that also erase time debuffs (+1 sec for 5 turns), while also covering tape resistance.
Cooldown is a bit on the longer side at 16 turns, but it is definitely an amazing assist with an awesome active skill. It's like Enoch, but different, but still fantastic, and with awakenings.
That was a big list !
All of this will be added to the main post when I'm done re-writing it ! (I'm about 85% done with the text, then there will be all the formatting)
This is a fantastic collab for Karin Kanzuki, feel free to roll and trade to your heart's content.
Also feel free to disagree with me as usual and add to the discussion !
IT IS DONE.
AFTER MANY LONG DAYS.
KARIN KANZUKI GUIDE V2.0 IS LIVE.
And I'm still going to keep updating it as the game receive updates !
But for now I'm exhausted :')
Special thanks to @MisterDrgn for the help on formatting, and special super thanks to the teams behind pad.protic.site, PADx, Ilmina.com, /r/PuzzleAndDragons and MiruBot as I wouldn't have been able to make this without these amazing resources !
Also Thanks to @Tetedeiench, @bp1976 and @Orange for engaging in the discussion and suggesting new content to add.
I did remove some subs/leads though. I could add them back in the future, but there's already *so much stuff*
Can you add me please? I would love to have a dedicated BF for a cross leader and this one is the most fun. Thanks for writing this excellent guide!
I’m also looking for more Karin Kanzuki friends. So please add me!!
Also, thanks for the amazing guide.
Sent you an invite o/ I'm glad you liked the guide !
We're already friends :> And thank you very much !
Thank you for the guide! She's so fun to play.
Feel free to add me: 311,881,360. Mine is all maxed out with 3 hp latents and shirou equip (subject to change)
AA3 dungeon data is available on skyozora.
As expected the thing looks hard as hell, and some posts on reddit are already pointing out how hard the thing is with its numerous hazards....
I didn't watched any of that, yet.
But I looked at the dungeon data to get a first estimate of the HP threshold required for Karin Kanzuki to enable her stall and kill playstyle.
Here's what I noticed
You will die with less than 75k HP. A lot of random attacks hit slightly above 74k damage, but not so much above 75k. Aim for that.
If you can reach 77 941 HP it should start to feel pretty comfy because the vast majority of random/non scripted attacks (about 95%+ ???) hit below that, and most importantly, Serket on F2 can hit you with a 77 940 damage attack.
You're genuinely safe at 84k HP (Aza hits for 82k+, Ctugha hits for 83k+). But is it even possible for Karin to reach such HP with real non-meme team ? I genuinely don't think so (and would love to be proven wrong).
Preempts go as high a 102k damage (Hera Nyx), and some spawns with resolve (typically : Ctugha) will kill a Karin team when knocked below resolve threshold. These moves can however be shielded no problem with as little as a 50% shield, granted you reach decent HP (think about 60-65k (though with this few HP and no shield you will die a lot)). But some require a 75% shield (Ctugha hits for 157k below 50% HP).
Yes, Nyx, Verse and Ctugha (and probably some others) have both damage void and resolve. Machine Athena is obviously also still a thing in AA3. There are probably a couple more spawns with both void and resolve, or dangerous damage mitigation hazards, but I have yet to look at them more closely.
The new dark invade/boss/whatever coming with this new Arena puts a 5 (?) turns 99% shield, while preventing for 5 turns in a row a different combination of 2 colors (different sets each turns) to be matched. A couple notable things about this :
While he's doing the "you can't match these 2 colors" thing he doesn't attack you I think
His shield remains up for the whole duration of this process
While his shield is up, he can still be one shot, as with the shield up his effective HP is 7 billion. Karin Kanzuki can still one shot him by damage capping (4 crosses).
Be ready though as there are only 1 turn when neither of light and fire matches are blocked, and I believe it is the 2nd set. Or to put it another way, it should be the 2nd set..... if the list of blocked combinations of attributes are executed in the same order as this one. Keep your eye open.
EDIT : Apparently on turn 1 (right when he does his preemptives) he doesn't block any color so that should be another kill window
If you run AA3 with Karin Kanzuki feel free to report back on what can go wrong for her, hazards wise o/
You're welcome ! And I sent you an invite ~
What a great write up and I can feel your passion for Karin and crosses! I've been playing around with her and crosses for a while and your guide is a fantastic resource.
Only thing is I have only 1 Karin on a JP alt and your leader pairing section is a huge boon. I'm also wondering if you have any thoughts on other cross leads? Since I lack any Karin friends on NA, I've been trying Planar X Allatu.
Hey there ! I'm glad you liked it ! I hope it will help you :>
Noooiiice, Best Girl Planar ! I've been playing that for a long while, truly a blast. I've beat so many monthly challenges and OSC with Planar X Planar and Planar X Allatu ! I loved it, and was pretty darn proud of the team I managed to build, as it was fully non-REM while being fully performing pretty darn well. Good days. Now I can hardly play this pairing as it lacks the ouptut of Karin Kanzuki, but sometimes I go back to Planar X Planar just to get this 6x5 crosses feeling again :>
Yeah, you could say it x) Anything in particular you want to discuss ? Modern cross leads are for the most part pretty amazing in general (as cross leads, I mean, like, the standard is not super high among cross leads, but modern cross leads ? Gosh are they good). I'm not too sure we can speak yet of variety, but we're getting more and more cross leads and these cross leads are becoming better and better. I love it.
Paimon is amazing. Cherun is amazing. Good old Kenshin is still amazing. Karin Kanzuki is Karin Kanzuki. Planar (with or without Allatu) is amazing. Nemain gosh don't get me started on her, I used to wholeheartedly hate her and now she as an amazing ult.
But the most amazing one right now, the single best cross lead as of today imo has to be Wedding Rushana. She is such an incredible lead with an amazing mix of power and bulkiness, while being herself an amazing card. Her team building is slightly restricted because it's type dependent but I mean, she wants gods, and gods are everywhere. It could have been worse xD And in exchange you get the ability to build either wood, light or water, depending on what your box has. Similarly to Karin Kanzuki, I'm baffled ult Wedding Rushana even exists because she is way too good x)
I just played with your Karin kanzuki...I'm not a big 7x6 person but I just used her with paimon and it wasnt too bad..what does your hp sit at on your normal Karin team? Either way I made you my best friend since you're on a lot lol
Hey there ! I just saw you BF'd me, thanks ! I hope it will work out for you with Paimon, I'm not super convinced myself by the Karin X Paimon pairing ha ha.
I just added my Karin Kanzuki team v1.0 to the guide (see the newly added "team build examples" part), and I have an average 64k ~ 66k HP, depending on which assist my helper has and whether or not it's fully leveled.
I'm working on my 2.0 team, and I'll likely reach 76k+ HP or so. Actually I'm sitting at 79k right now, but I'm using a placeholder sub (Myne) that will likely not be in the final team ~
Turns out it's possible with super luxury subs. I'm working on my 2.0 team, and while experimenting I reached 79k while not going all out with my team HP+ subs. So should I decide to add this 2nd Aerith to my team (in exchange for loosing some hazard resistance), I should be able to reach 82k at least, and likely 84k. I'll let you know how it goes anyways ~
Have any of you tried running an onion knight assist on a Karin Kanzuki team? The card's awakenings are pretty mediocre, but the active is 1.5x movement time for 3 turns and an orb change (wood->fire, dark->light) on a 7 turn cd. So it's Enoch's orb time, but with an orb change that's likely to generate a kill board instead of a shield. I was really bummed about rolling him on both accounts, until I realized just how good his active actually is.
TRAINING ARENA 2.......... (a.k.a extreme challenge arena)
My gosh I love how it's actually genuinely hard for Karin :')
It's not so much a damage problem (well, ultimately *it is*) but a resource one, because by default (without killers and armor break) all floors must be at least triple crossed to be cleared. Nothing will die to double crosses, not even F1, which is stupid hilarious. If you don't have three crosses on any board, and can't make a board with three crosses, you loose (except on 2-CDs floors, where you have 1 turn to clear the board and pray for good RNG).
This wouldn't be so much of an issue if Karin could stall in this dungeon, but here's the catch : she can't. There's whopping total of zero safe floors to be stalled on (you need about 100k HP to enable stalling on some floors), which makes this dungeon a continuous resource sink. Exactly what Karin is bad at dealing with.
Ironical for a normal dungeon isn't it ?
However. There are ways to make things manageable. Here are some random advices that could help you beat this :
Bring a defense break active skill ! It's borderline mandatory. Don't rely on RNG to give you triple cross boards, because while you can have them with natural skyfall, you're unlikely to have them every turn (and you need it every turn). A 100% defense break AS will make F1, F2, (maybe F3), F6 and most importantly F8 clearable with double crosses (and massive comboing), which is invaluable ! Remember : defense break carries on kill, which means that you can defense break the whole dungeon with as a little as a 1-turn def break if you keep one-shotting everything without interruption.
Guard break awakenings are not as beneficial as they look (ultimately they are), as only the card with it can deal relevant damage, so if this card can one-shot a spawn it likely means you triple crossed, hence you didn't needed guard break in the first place because nothing dies to one card dealing double cross damage (except F8).
Killers ! Good luck with that xD !
F1 to F6 are filled with healers
F7 and F8 are balanced (and genie has massive 1B defense)
F9 to F11 are filled with devils (except Fama, who is dragon/balanced)
Make your choice as to what you want killers for, as you'll likely have trouble covering everything.
Orb skyfall buffs (like Wedding Scheat or Kenshin ) help tremendously ! But ultimately it's still RNG dependent.
Here are some MVP cards to absolutely run with if you have them ! No protestation allowed xD
Hakuren from Shinrabansho Collab is a godsend, as she's an actual Karin sub with an AS that both make big amounts of light (2 columns), and fully break defense (100%). She's also among the fastest 100% def break in the game, at only 10 turns.
Yu Nurakami & Izanagi from Persona Collab, is excellent too as his 100% def break comes with the spawning of 7 random lights in the board, adding an entire cross to your board.
Kuwabara from Yu Yu Hakusho Collab is a godsend, as he's literally a Hakuren with 1 more turn of CD, and an even better AS because the columns are not stuck to the sides.
Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star Collab (which I will add to the main post shortly) is awesome as well for his 100% def break, which also add significant 7secs of matching time in the process. An excellent asset.
The best way however to beat this however is pairing Karin with Nemain if you can. I swear, Nemain is the solution to Karin having trouble with this dungeon. Outside of the fact that she's an excellent Karin pairing that might get you out of a bad spot with wood crosses, Nemain is notable for being one the of the rare 2-turns 100% def break (12 turns CD) in the game, which is invaluable because it does enable you to stall 1 turn on a 2-CD floor when you don't have a kill board. Only she and Scar (FMA collab) can let you do that. If you have Nemain friends, absolutely pair with her.
btw if you have a Scar, for this very reason it's good thing to sub him.
Good luck ! I'll all this info to the main post shortly ~
But ultimately, if you have her, this dungeon is much more suited to be ran with Wedding Rushana than Karin Kanzuki, because Wedding Rushana has far less resource issues thanks to being tricolor, and can actually stall on a couple floors (granted you have a Mel or an equivalent RCV stick).
Yeah Onion Knight's AS is kinda a blessing. It's so sad that his awakens are so not good for Karin, but as an assist it's pretty darn great. I'll add him to the main post shortly !