Halloween Verdandi, S Tier Lead?

Discussion in 'P&D Discussion' started by Knomraski, Oct 22, 2017.

  1. Knomraski

    Knomraski Bowl of Herp

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    http://www.puzzledragonx.com/en/monster.asp?n=3994

    4000hp
    1700atk
    500rcv

    LS: All attribute cards ATK x5 when HP is full. ATK x3 when HP is greater than 80%. ATK x4, reduce damage taken by 35% after matching Heal orbs in a cross formation.

    AS: Full HP recovery. Change all orbs to Wood, Dark & Heart orbs.

    Awakenings: 2 SB, Bind Immunity, SBR, 2 7C, 2 TE

    She seems like she may actually be a top tier card, rivaling the likes of Yog and Kamimusubi.

    She plays very similarly to Kami and Yog, which is basically a reverse Metatron. But seeing as she’s dark, I’m just going to compare her to Kamimusubi, who resembles her the most.

    -Verdandi has a 35% (or 58% with two) LS DS vs Kami’s 25% (or 44% with two) Leaderskill DS
    -Insanely good AS. Much, much better than Kami’s.
    -Easily able to stall. She has a 58% DS that can be activated even when doing zero damage, unlike Kami who must use dark and green orbs with a minimum ATK multiplier of 68x to get an inferior 44% DS.
    -Verdandi has a 3x, 5x, 12x or 20x ATK multiplier. Kami has a 2.5x, 5x, 8.25x or 17.5x multiplier. Both require HP of at least 80% to do max damage. Verdandi requires 8 total orbs for max damage (3 dark and 5 hearts). Kami requires only 3 dark. Kami has the advantage here.
    -Heart crosses suck and diminish your combo count and waste valuable time. Verdandi’s 7Cs are worthless if you can’t hit 7 combos. Again, Kami wins.
    -Verdandi has vastly superior awakenings. However, you will definitely want Kami’s FUA, but that could be obtained by using him as a sub; he doesn’t have to be a leader to benefit from it.
    -Both Kami and Verd share the same pool of ideal 7C subs: Ney (probably the D/D version for Verd and the G/D version for Kami), Cotton (the only other dark FUA- I think), Nohime, and Uranus. Of those cards, the ONLY one with more than 1 TE is Verd. All of the rest either have none or one. Uranus and Ideal both have zero TEs, for instance. Personally, I would not be able to *dependably* hit 7 combos with only 4 or 5 fingers on the team. For me, this is, by far, Verdandi’s biggest weakness. The only solution for this weakness is to improve considerably at playing the game, or to roll 5 Verdandis which sounds expensive even by my rather stupidly exorbitant standards.

    If I were Reco or Paprika or another amazing player, I suspect I’d prefer splitting my leads between Verd and Kami. Unfortunately, I am stuck here playing with my average brain and my giant sausage fingers.

    TL;dr I think that for the most skilled players that whale the hardest, she’ll be top tier. Even fantastic players will have a hard time using her effectively unless they also have a pretty amazing box.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
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  2. ViewtifulGene

    ViewtifulGene Mostly Retired. Still A Lazy Shit.

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    Lack of obtainable FUA drops her down a peg, IMO. Her active is a bit slow to inherit over and it's mostly wasted if you go off-color.

    I guess you can go green and use vanilla Verd. But the team would be absurdly MP intensive with Ragdrags and Odindrag.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  3. Knomraski

    Knomraski Bowl of Herp

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    Halloween Verd in NA today isn’t S Tier, I totally agree. I was referring to how strong she’ll be in the future when the NA meta catches up with JP.

    We’ll be getting Kami (and our first dark FUA sub) next week probably.

    And we'll presumably get her other best subs (Uranus, Cotton, Ideal, etc) in 4-6 weeks-ish.
     
  4. Moyuba

    Moyuba Well-Known Member

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    The difference with yog is he still gets a good multiplier under 80% hp, verdandi just gets x4 from the heart cross. It will be basically impossible to kill a floor after a preemptive without using her active.
     
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  5. Knomraski

    Knomraski Bowl of Herp

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    I think “basically impossible” is a tremendous exaggeration, but there is a kernel of truth to it.

    1. 16x with a boatload of 7Cs is still a crap-ton of damage.
    2. Her ideal team would likely have 3, 4 or even 5 active HP heals, including dupes of herself (100%), Ney (25%), and Kami (30%).
    3. A 58% DS greatly minimizes the effect of preemptive strikes.
    4. Even in the toughest dungeons you will get a turn now and then to heal via hearts and save your actives.
     
  6. SuperAngryNoob

    SuperAngryNoob Member

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    Kami lead and 2 Halloween Verdandi, dream team :D
     
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  7. Xayvin

    Xayvin Floofie Tail Fanboy!

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    She is very powerful no doubt, but hard to pull, and you will need another hard to pull dark FUA card to do anything meaningful late game. She will probably be difficult to find friends for, much like many rare seasonal cards - but you can always use a BF reset to find a friend who will play her frequently.

    Tread carefully if you decide to chase Verdandi - especially when you consider how hit and miss GH is with maintaining seasonal REM cards (spoiler alert: Halloween cards for the most part have not aged well.)
     
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  8. xer 21

    xer 21 Mathematically the Worst Player on the Forums

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    Seems like an s tier sub though. For a ton of teams. Kami especially.
     
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  9. Xayvin

    Xayvin Floofie Tail Fanboy!

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    Absolutely an S-tier sub, just as good as green Ney is!
     
  10. HappyNoms

    HappyNoms Ogliarchial collectivist

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    I was just thinking double Nohime, cotton/Ney, and a time extend crutch Yomi style in the fourth sub slot with an inherit, because the 7cc should hit like a truck.

    Assuming I can pull the girl.
    These seasonal R.E.M. rates. Oobleck.

    I also think, because this is semi-oppressively true of almost everything, that she belongs split lead 6x7, so I'm not going to cry too hard if I don't pull her and just ended up running split with some lucky fool.

    6x7 for the breezy board manipulations, Verd for the perma-shield to bump team hp up to respectably robust. Seems good.
     
  11. Tek7

    Tek7 Well-Known Member

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    But more importantly, her art is amazing. <3

    I'm very VERY light IAP (about $17 in nearly 1300 days of play) so I won't be chasing HVerd, but I suppose there is a possibility of pulling her on my free pull. Extremely unlikely, but still (technically) possible.
     
  12. ViewtifulGene

    ViewtifulGene Mostly Retired. Still A Lazy Shit.

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    Kami doesn't change the (pelvic) thrust of my argument. The FUA options are still unobtainable because they're locked behind 6* GFEs. Even Kami is 6*.

    Without realistic on-color FUA options, I would rather spam 7C with something more conducive to off-color. Verd has the multiplier for it, but her active slot is then wasted and slow to overwrite. Other color-agnostic leads have actives that are either fast enough to overwrite, or are universally useful as they are.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  13. Knomraski

    Knomraski Bowl of Herp

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    I think we’re just going to have to disagree on this point. I believe it is because our definitions of “unobtainable” differ greatly. Kami clearly is unobtainable today, but she will be very, very soon, even if he (I think it’s a he, anyway?) is very rare.

    Generally speaking, when I consider whether (and where) a card belongs on the tier list, I do so assuming the player using the card has access to every and all possible subs, despite their rarity. I recognize this isn’t realistic for the vast majority of players, but I don’t see an objective, alternative method of weighing a card’s worth, except on a personal, case by case basis, which is hopefully what players are doing- examining their box before determining how many times they should roll.

    Rolling heavily for HVerdandi (or Kami) is probably a terrible idea for the majority of players because even if they got her, they likely wouldn’t have the box to use her effectively (for reasons like a lack of a dark FUA as you suggested). And having the box to use her to her fullest is really, really rare (unless you are a Svengali).

    I rolled heavily until I got the HVerdandi I wanted. Fortunately for me and my wallet, I really only wanted one to use as a sub on a Kami team. If I had the skill to use her to her full potential, I likely would have needed 3 or 4 to build her ideal team. So in a way, lacking in skill was actually to my benefit this time.
     
  14. philsov

    philsov has sufficient privileges to post here

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    I don't think she's an S-tier lead, namely because 7c plus heart cross isn't a repeatable solve (for me) so the lack of 7c boosting by either her or any sub is a strike against her. No OE, no native TPA, nor row -- she's 400x with a shield -- very strong, if a bit heavy with the HP conditional.

    Amazing active and sub. If I had a bunch of her ideal subs (cotton, Kami, Ideal) I think I'd prefer to lead with any of them over Verd.

    Also -- grats!
     
  15. SuperAngryNoob

    SuperAngryNoob Member

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    50 polls, finally got one :(

    lots of silver :(
     
  16. HappyNoms

    HappyNoms Ogliarchial collectivist

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    I agree with everything you say, but I have to insist we call her HaVerd with a Boston accent.
     
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  17. aFireBlaze

    aFireBlaze memes

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    if you run a dungeon with back to back preemptives you'll only get 400x twice
    :hyperblobthinking:

    ----

    Yeah on paper she's good. End-game content is basically asking if you want to get memed.

    Sub-wise or inherit is good. Luxary however since Oichi/ney/mitsunari already cover this + most of the time full heal isn't necessary for someone like Kami to output a crap ton of damage.
     
  18. scrubbo

    scrubbo Have you ever punched a donkey? Event Manager

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    Probably should replace my Schoolgirl Isis as my second lead.
     

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