I want a cross awoken skill.

Discussion in 'P&D Discussion' started by YamaKyu, May 13, 2019.

  1. YamaKyu

    YamaKyu Karin Kanzuki was a mistake. And I love it ♥

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    Nov 12, 2014
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    Unlucky for you I'm bored tonight and I just died to Rushana from an unfortunate execution accident in AA2 so I feel like discussing random stuff again ~
    Bear with me :>

    EDIT : Yo, I added a TL;DR before each section because that is indeed yet another massive post of mine.

    Not so long ago I've had this kinda crazy idea to make a cross awoken skill. Not a heart-cross, or a attribute-cross awakening, but an actual awakening that rewards matching a cross of any type of orb, regardless of whether or not you're playing a cross lead. And I have a pretty good idea of what I would like it to do.

    I have 3 main goals for this awoken skill :
    → I want to reward matching a cross even for non cross lead
    → I want to provide utility instead of additional power
    → Different types of orbs should provide different types of utility (1 awoken skill able to active from multiple types of orbs (so it's different from TPA and heart-TPA, or L-unlock and L-shield)).
    (→ also make cross leads a viable options for rankings, because I swear having matching bonuses for every other shape but crosses is extremely frustrating :<)

    Let's get to it !

    Attribute crosses : Pre-preemptive attack
    (you might have seen this part in a reddit post a few months ago actually) :

    EDIT : Matching attribute-crosses allows to reduce slightly (0.5% per cross and awakening) the damage of the card(s) that have it, store this lost damage and pre-preemptively attack the next spawn with it (IF and only IF the current spawn died on this turn, else the damage is just reduced by the said amount and never recovered).
    This effect has some limitations ; it can't one shot a spawn (maximum is 51% of an enemy's health), it's not true damage, and hitting damage cap will also cap the damage carried through via this awakening.
    More details below, but basically this effect 2 purposes : deactivating resolves, and bypassing preemptive attacks.

    Imagine an awakening that activate only on the monster which has it, when a cross of exactly 5 orbs of color is matched.
    What it does is this : the said monster will deal 0.5% x number of crosses matched x number of cross awakening less damage for this turn (1% less damage if 2 crosses are matched, 1.5% for 3 crosses and so on), but if the enemy still dies in this turn, this 0.5% of damage will instead be used to preemptively attack the next spawn.
    (fear not, there are both soft and hard limits to this, bear with me)

    The idea is that this pre-preemptive attack can bypass both resolves and preemptives attacks entirely : if the next spawn (after the one that died) has a high priority skill that they must use under a certain HP threshold (think Zeusdra and its dozen of skill sets), and this HP threshold is passed, then the HP dependent skill will be used instead of the normal preemptive. Yeah, that is quite strong.

    But there are a couple notes and limits to this :
    • If the current spawn doesn't die on the turn this awoken is activated, the 0.5% damage doesn't carry on to the next spawn (and you don't get it back either). Only the kill blow counts. And only the monster(s) with the awakening can deal the pre-preemptive attack.
    • The damage cap is 2.14 billions, so the max damage this awakening can deal will always be 10.2 millions x number of crosses.
    • Sounds like a lot of damage but that's for hitting damage cap, which is a heck of commitment (except for Karin Kanzuki but she was a mistake to begin with). That is a feat only a limited amount of teams have realistically access to (every team can do it, very few teams can reasonably do it (without blowing 15 active skills I mean)), and still a huge ressource sink and execution achievement to execute it (no 6x5 attribute cross lead can cap naturally (without skyfall nor enhance AS) on 6x5 // Planar X Allatu needs 5 crosses to start hitting damage cap, same for Bride Rushana X Rushana // then there's Karin Kanzuki).
    • Knowing this number still allow the designers to build around it, and adjust the HP and skill/resolve thresholds of monsters accordingly (like, don't make a spawn with a 75% resolve and 40M HP because a because a cross with damage cap will deactivate that (<unrealistic example but you get the idea))
    • No matter how much damage is carried through this awakening, it can never pre-preemptively insta-kill a spawn.
      In fact, regardless of the damage carried through this cross awakening, the damage actually dealt pre-preemptivelly will be capped at 51% of the spawns HP (so you can get them down to 49% HP pre-preemptively).
    • This is because a lot of spawns have high priority skill sets below 50% HP, so you can trigger that, and deactivate 50% resolves
    • Having more cross awakening in the team still won't allow to pass that. This will be a hard limit.
    • A direct consequence is regardless of the power output and amount of crosses matched, you will never ever face a spawn with less than 49% health. You can deal up to 51% HP, but never ever more.
    • That is another thing the designer can easily build around, by having spawns do something annoying below 50% HP to take heavy crossers by surprise.
    • It's not true damage. However matching multiple crosses or having multiple of this awoken skill in your team will have the pre-preemptive attack to be merged into a single hit (because, you know, armors).
    This effect would be extremely strong, as it can totally trivialize spawns and break dungeons which design revolves around preemptive or resolves : ult Kaguyahime, Anubis, DIza, the Metatrons (if true damage), Vishnu and many many more will suffer from it really super badly (but Sopdet, Ilsix or Valkyrie CIEL not so much for example), which could make it straight up OP. But there's also another side to this, some spawns have very dangerous skills when knocked below 50% : Ctugha deals a big attack when below 50%, Ena straight up gravity you to death (115%), etc...
    This awoken skill would be very strong, but the designers can easily build around it by either slapping some armor onto the spawns, adjust the resolve thresholds of new spawns, or just do something nasty below a given %.

    Heart-crosses : Over-healing

    EDIT : Matching heart-crosses allows the team to heal past its max HP (2.5% of the excessive healing per cross and awakening), and use this excessive healing as temporary additional HP. This new additional HP acts mostly like normal HP in the sense that it will be depleted first when the player is hit, and doesn't prevent you from dying to a 100% gravity.
    However it's different because once it's gone it's gone, you can't recover it with normal healing. You can over-heal again, but it won't add to the previous excessive HP, instead it's erased and replaced.
    More details below o/

    This cross awakening will provide a new effect to heart-crosses, even for non-cross leads : over-healing. When matching a heart-cross, the cross awakening will allow you to heal past your max HP, and increase it temporarily.
    The amount of over-healing you get will be : 2.5% x excessive health recovered x number of heart-crosses matched x number of cross awakening in the team.
    Quick example : your team has 50k max HP, and you were just hit by a 30k attack so you're left with 20k HP. If you make a heart cross while having 2 cross awakening in the team, and you heal 70k HP, the excessive healing will be 40k, and you'll increase your max HP by 5% of 40k ; which is 2000HP. So at the end of turn you'll sit onto 52k max HP instead of 50k.

    This additional HP carries until you take a hit, in which case your excessive HP is obviously eaten first.

    This come with limits though :
    • Any lost excessive HP cannot be recovered normally : in the previous example, if you take 1000 damage on the next turn, you can't heal "back" to 52k HP, unless you over-heal again.
      Over-healing taking damage is a one way process. You can only get it back by over-healing again.
    • While you can still over-heal higher than you previously over-healed, it doesn't add with your previous over-healing. Instead it will erase the previous excessive HP with a new calue. With the previous example, you can get 3k over-healing after getting your initial 2k, but that won't give you 55k max HP. Only 53k, because your 3k over-healing erased the 2k additional HP you got previously.
    • This will not bypass gravities. A 100% gravity still kills you when you have some excessive max HP. A 99% gravity still reduces by 99% your HP.
    • Auto-healing does not count. You cannot over-auto-heal yourself.
    This obviously benefits teams with naturally very high RCV like Karin Kanzuki, Trailokya-I-don't-recall-her-name, etc.... and... Loli-Myr.
    But it also incentivise the use of heart TPA sticks such as Mel or Hestia in teams which doesn't necessarily need them. And of course, the main point of this is to give new survivability options for, you guessed it, fragile teams that does not fit this "durable leads" meta.

    My bias are showing ~

    Jammer-crosses : soft delay

    EDIT : Matching jammer-crosses adds a chance (20% per cross and awakening) that the enemy spawn will perform a single normal attack (the damage is their base ATK stat) instead of a skill/skillset. You can see it as a soft-delay, as most spawns are less dangerous with their normal attacks than with their skills (though there are exceptions).
    This effect obviously caps at 100% chance and only works for the turn it's activated. If a skill is properly "delayed", then it should be used on next turn (unless delayed again, obviously). Like, you can soft delay Sopdet's goodbye with it, but she'll try to use it on the next turn.
    See below for details ~

    You might remember me saying in older post that I think jammer-crosses should "true-delay" enemy spawns (by that I mean it delays enemies evean if they have a status shield). Back then I thought that would be very cool, but I don't think it's fine.
    I would like to change it to something more suited to jammers. I still think jammer crosses should induce a similar effect to ennemies than they do for us, and that is messing with our ability to attack. So I think matching a jammer-cross could mess with the enemies's ability to attack as well.
    Here's what I came up with.

    Matching a jammer cross increases by 20% x number of cross x number of cross awakening in the team the chances the enemy's next attack will be a normal attack instead of a skill. Capping at 100%, obviously. What I mean by that is you might have noticed (if you use PADx, Skyozora, Dadguide or any dungeon detail providing service) that each spawn has a base ATK stat, that is multiplied by more or less high value everytime an enemy uses a skill (this is the "deal X% damage" thing).

    I think jammer crosses should induce a jamming effect on enemies, and prevent them from using a skill so that they just deal a single hit attack of 100% of their base ATK stat.
    Even if they have a high priority skill coming (such as a rage/resolve skill).

    The limitations are as follows :
    • Of course, as I said earlier, you only get 20% per cross and per awakening.
    • The effect only work for the turn it is used. It doesn't carry on kill nor to the next turn whatsoever.
    • If the enemy has a non-random high priority skill coming and it gets canceled by the jammer-cross jamming, the said skill should be used next turn. For example, if you cancel Sopdet's "goodbye" attack with enough jammer crosses (she would deal a normal attack of 20k damage, since that's her base ATK stat), she will still try to use it on the next turn.
    • You can jammer cancel a skill several turns in row if you keep matching enough jammer crosses each turn.

    So basically instead of being a hard delay (which is OP, actually), you get a soft delay with jammer crosses. Most of the spawns have non lethal base ATK stat, so while you can still die from it, you're also very likely to be able to survive what would have otherwise been a dangerous attack.
    That is still something the designers can build around. Just run AA1 and AA2 without an HP mult and just see how much :misc19: spawns there are : some spawn can deal higher damage with their normal attack than with a skill. A very notable example would be the snow globes at the end of A4 ; their base ATK stat is 73k.

    Poison crosses and mortal poison crosses : perseverance/resolve

    EDIT : Matching poison-crosses or mortal-poison-crosses will activate a resolve/perseverance effect on the player. The thresholds are different for regular poisons (15% per cross and awakening) and mortal poisons (45% per cross and awakening). The idea is that basically the player deep suicides, and if they make it back with enough RCV, they're protected by a resolve. However matching poison still deals poison damage, so it's about coming back from the dead
    This effect doesn't carry on kill or whatsoever, only active for the turn it's triggered.
    See below o/

    In the same post I previously mentionned, I thought poison-crosses should "true-gravity" (= gravity based on an enemy's max HP) enemies, before normal damage gets applied. Seeing how common poison and mortal poisons are, I think this is -again- not really fine.
    Instead, I want poison-crosses to activate a resolve/perseverance for the player, for the turn it is used. If you don't know how it works (resolve/perseverance LS are extremely rare nowadays) you can basically sum it up like this
    The formula for the resolve threshold (the point below which you die if you're hit) would be different for poison and mortal poisons :

    → poison : 100 - (15% x number of crosses x number of awakenings). So with a single cross awakening, if you match 2 poisons crosses, you can survive if you're hit above 70% of your max HP.

    → mortal poison : 100 - (45% x number of crosses x number of awakenings). So with a single cross awakening, if you match 2 mortal poisons crosses, you can survive if you're hit above 10% of your max HP.

    Sounds too strong ? It is, but it still comes with a very important downside :
    • Poison crosses still deal poison damage ! You can still die from poisoning. You basically suicide and hope your RCV is high enough to make you heal back to the resolve threshold.
    • A direct consequence of this is activating perseverance via mortal poison crosses is massive commitment because a single mortal poison cross (5 orbs) cuts your HP by 80% (so 160% for 2). Which is why hitting 2 mortal poison crosses makes you virtually invulnerable. You get it by surviving your deep suicide.
    • This effect doesn't carry on kill nor on the next turn whatsoever.
    • AS that spawn mortal poisons are still rare.
    Basically make Wallace great again.
    That is yet again something the designers can work around, by making spawns that can make an amount of poison/mortal poisons that cannot be evenly divided by 5, like 4, 7 or 9 (or 13, but that is pretty damn savage).

    And last but not least.

    Bomb-crosses : true gravity

    EDIT : Matching bomb-crosses will simply true-gravity (= based on the enemy max HP, not current HP) the enemy spawn before applying it any normal damage (20% per cross and awakening). It can deactivate resolves. This damage is true, however it cans still be absorbed or voided.
    There aren't much more limits to it, which makes it strong, but I explained my reasoning on why it is so damn strong below ~

    Ok this is it. This is what should inudce true gravity-ing (= gravity that deals damage depending on max HP).
    What makes me think bomb-crosses should be fine with this effect is a number of things inherent to them specifically :
    • Bombs are still a fairly rare hazard. You deal with jammers and poisons far more than with bombs even today.
    • There is no bomb skyfall (got bless PAD designers for that) to provide regular bomb supply.
    • Bombs cannot be stockpiled. If you don't match them, they blow up, and take your HP with them. You can't just keep them in a corner until you get 5 to make a cross. And you cannot make a bomb cross if you have more than 5 bombs, but less than 8 (you can, but you'll likely die for this).
    • Bombs are still very hard to spawn voluntarly ; only a small amount of cards can spawn bombs (and they're not super good cards).
    • Bombs are extremely dangerous because of the damage they deal and the "destroy the board" effect they carry : not matching bombs is basically commiting suicide. Also they cannot be cascaded.
      • A direct consequence of this is bombs always have the highest priority in what should be matched. Not dealing with the bombs means they will deal with you.
    So since they're such a threat to you, I think they should also be a big threat to the enemy. Which is why I think you should get 20% true gravity per bomb cross and per awakening, before dealing any normal damage.

    The only limit is it can still be voided and absorbed by damage void and absorbs.

    That is yet again something the designers can build around, by making spawns that either make an unevenly dividable by 5 amount of bombs, or spawning bombs by packs of 6 or 7 (if you match a cross with 5 bombs, you either leave 1 or 2 bombs on the board, and they will explode).

    I think I covered everything x)

    To somewhat compensate for this awoken skill's massive strength, I believe it shouldn't be available as a normal awakening nor super awakening, but tied to a weapon equip which the active skill is ass (maybe "1 true damage laser" and that's it) and extremely short, like 2 or 3 turns from the get go (no skill-up required) so you just don't slap it on anyone without thinking of the consequences.

    As is it, it absolutely would be a very strong awakening, but it's also a very high commitment to use it. As I said, it should be very rare (equip evo only) and come with a massive downside (ass active skill). And then when you want to activate it, remember how much of a ressource sink matching a single cross is : it takes time, space and 5 orbs. Jammer crosses might look strong but you need a massive supply of jammer to use them properly as 2 crosses (40% chances) is at least 10 jammers, and it will strongly mess with your ability to match more combos. Same applies with other crosses. You deep suicide when matching 2 mortal poison crosses. Bombs have the highest priority in what should be matched each turn because they are so dangerous, and the supply is still very thin.

    Hopefully it would push non-cross players to match a cross in their comboing. I can tell from experience that it is extremely easy to do 7c + cross if you decide beforehand of which color the cross will be. The matching pattern is the same as regular comboing. But currently only cross leads need to do that. With this awakening, you will have a reason to want to make a cross because of all the utility you can get from it.
    Poison crosses in particular could make poison cross leads such as Wallace extremely viable, and gosh I so want to see this !

    This awoken skill benefits particularly glass cannons (such as Amen) since what glass cannons usually need is utility and other ways to not die. Because, you know, they are glassy.
    Amen in particular naturally wants to match blobs. You might as well match a cross while you're at it. It should actually benefit almost every kind of team (though rows get the short hand of the stick again, sorry), but provide additional attractiveness to leads which identify more to glass cannons than impenetrable-fortress-of-destruction leads. And that is by design.
    But all teams (except maybe rows) can make great use of it.

    Another big aspect of this awakening is it takes advantage of the uniqueness of attribute-cross leads : matching multiple crosses activate their LS multiple times and allows for a fantastic damage potential without relying on spike actives. Playing crosses means you always overkill everything, so it's about making overkilling stuff actually useful. This exponential damage will have a purpose.

    Also hopefully it will attract more people in trying out cross leads, since it benefits them more than any other leads.

    So that's it :9 It probably won't ever happen, but it would have the potential to be meta-changing, or at least drastically increase the appeal of other leads that might look fun but lack the survivability of meta leads. This awakening is more a multi-purpose utility awakening, that could benefit everyone :>
    One man can dream ~

    Thanks for reading my random thoughts again
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
    xer 21 likes this.
  2. MisterDrgn

    MisterDrgn You can't take the sky from me. Staff Member

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    Dec 11, 2012
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    Can you add a tldr summary?
    ko300zx and YamaKyu like this.
  3. YamaKyu

    YamaKyu Karin Kanzuki was a mistake. And I love it ♥

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    Nov 12, 2014
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    Added a TL;DR before each section and hid the main chunk with spoilers to make it easier to navigate o/
  4. Noobzilla

    Noobzilla noobest of the noobs

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    Aug 19, 2013
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    Send it to GungHo!
    YamaKyu likes this.
  5. YamaKyu

    YamaKyu Karin Kanzuki was a mistake. And I love it ♥

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    Nov 12, 2014
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    Ha ha ha I'm glad you like it, and equally afraid they wouldn't have the motivation/time/interest/whatever in even reading it I guess.
    But tbh I do consider it, just for the sake of justifying the time spent thinking and writing all of this ha ha

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