Is Vishnu the best Indian 2.0 now?

Discussion in 'P&D Discussion' started by A2Wolverine, Dec 18, 2014.

  1. unlimitedx

    unlimitedx Well-Known Member

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    TPA is 100% for sure multiplicative, I will bet you a rep on it lol. You are right that row enhances are addictive though.
     
  2. prem

    prem ill learn to spell one day i swear

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    okay just looked it up and apparnetly the fact of life ive been basing everything on is wrong and when i originally looked it up when tpa was originally buffed it was only 2x. im dumb sorry pls forgib me lol
     
  3. kumomo

    kumomo Noob Staff Member

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    1560*1.25*1.5*1.5*1.5 is the correct answer

    if u make a tpa and the other match is just a simple match of 3

    (1560*1.25*1.5^3 + 1560)*1.25

    tpa is only applied on orb matches of 4
    if u match 2 tpa that's 2*(1560*1.25*1.5^3)*1.25

    make a huge difference
     
  4. Fen

    Fen Member

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    Best indian is Ganesha. He brings money into your homes so you can keep feeding those lil monsters lol
     
  5. kumomo

    kumomo Noob Staff Member

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    to break down the math

    1 TBA Match is 6581 for Awoken Kagu
    1560*1.25*1.5^3 = 6581.25
    2 TBA Match is 16453 for Awoken Kagu
    2*(1560*1.25*1.5^3)*1.25 = 16453.125
    3 TBA Match is 29615 for Awoken Kagu
    3*(1560*1.25*1.5^3)*1.5 = 29615.625
    4 TBA Match is 46067 for Awoken Kagu
    4*(1560*1.25*1.5^3)*1.75 = 46068.75


    people got to understand why people are using kagu (tpa variant of krishna and RGY).
    look back on the video at the kill on zeus, kagu output 4.2M on a 4 tpa 3 fire board (with skyfalls) along with 2x dragon enhance while ronia only 1.69M, apply this when ur leading with RGY or Krishina, unless u are packed with TPA subs u are doing lackluster damage because u are brute forcing urself trying to maximize 1 monster's damage.

    now how does vishnu team work? ur literally stuck at 12.25x
    with bastet? u have 12.25*1.15 = 14.0875x
    with fafnir? u have 12.25*1.3 = 15.925x
    with freyjr = 12.25*1.5 = 18.375x

    assuming ur whole team is double tpa with a average attack of 2000 hypermaxed
    at a 4 tpa board

    http://www.puzzledragonx.com/en/simulator.asp?q=1335.99.1.99.99.99.4..1303.99.1.99.99.99.6..1303.99.1.99.99.99.6..1730.99.1.99.99.99.5..1730.99.1.99.99.99.5..1335.99.1.99.99.99.4

    4*(12000*1.25*2.25)*1.75*12.25 = 2894062.5

    ===================================================

    assume u run double krishna lead with double dino and dino kagu at 3 tpa board

    http://www.puzzledragonx.com/en/simulator.asp?q=1331.99.1.99.99.99.4..1726.99.1.99.99.99.8..1726.99.1.99.99.99.8..1301.99.1.99.99.99.6..1301.99.1.99.99.99.6..1331.99.1.99.99.99.4

    for simple sakes i'll assume all of them have 2000 atk power
    krishna = 3*2000*1.25*1.5*20.25 = 227812.5
    dino = 3*2000*1.25*2.25*1.5*20.25 = 512578.125
    kagu = 3*2000*1.25*3.375*1.5*20.25 = 768867.1875

    total = 3018515.25

    so how can vishuu become the TOP indian 2.0?

    not to mention that team can also make rows (6 rows enhance)

    at 3 rows no extra combo
    3*12000*1.75*1.5*20.25*2.8 =5358150

    wt about 2 rows + 1 tpa
    [(2*12000*1.75)+(4000*1.25)+(4000*1.25*2.25)+(4000*1.25*3.375)]*1.5*20.25*2.2=
    [42000+5000+11250+16875]*1.5*20.25*2.2=5020228.125

    correct me if i got the math wrong, but there's no way at this moment that krishna can excel what krishna can do at this very moment
     
  6. Zyhre

    Zyhre Member

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    If you are talking just raw damage, assuming you'll always have the orbs, then yes, Krishna is going to win. If you want ease of use and more reliability, Vishnu can do more with less. I don't think one is really better than the other as they both have their strengths. Vishnu is better when you have less than 10 orbs, Krishna is better when you have more. It's the same "risk vs reward" principle we see in other gods.

    While your example is quite thorough, it does leave out a few situations where Vishnu can reach higher damages than what you have generalized. You could very easily run a third Robin and a GZL for that one turn x2 uber damage. Yes, it is using an enhancer to reach that level when Krishna doesn't have to, however, there could also be times where you would have to burn a skill in order to make enough orbs for Krishna to even reach 4.5x so it kind of evens out.

    Another thing to consider, is what each team brings for other things, Vishnu has more Recovery and Skill Boosts; Krishna HP and Row Enhances. Again, I think they are very evenly balanced overall as each excels in one part or another.
     
  7. Tiquity

    Tiquity Need more Andros. Send help.

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    The thing about Krishna is he utilizes all 3 of orb enhance, rows and 2 prong. Doesn't matter if you build him around 2 prong, all his subs will naturally have rows and 2 Krishnas already has 4 orb enhance. And Skill boost is not that big of a factor when all his optimal subs have it.

    And then there is Kagu, Skill boost+orb enhance+rows+3 tpa+orb changer AS (and a neat bonus auto heal too). Literally every single awakening you could possibly ask for bundled together.

    They should give me an Awoken Lakshmi.
     
  8. kumomo

    kumomo Noob Staff Member

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    http://www.puzzledragonx.com/en/simulator.asp?q=1335.99.1.99.99.99.4..1303.99.1.99.99.99.6..1303.99.1.99.99.99.6..1303.99.1.99.99.99.6..1373.99.1.99.99.99.5..1335.99.1.99.99.99.4

    as u wish
    both attacks after +99 atk
    Vishnu - 2,075
    robin - 2,287
    zgl - 2,509

    vs the team i did earlier
    Krishna - 2,012
    Kagu - 2,055
    dino - 2,305


    at max board only make a total of 4 tpa (16 orbs and no additional combo)
    2 vishnu - 2*(4*2075*1.25*2.25*12.25*1.75) = 1000863.28125
    3 robins with enhance - 3*(4*2287*1.25*2.25*12.25*1.75*2) = 3309360.46875
    1 zgl with enhance - 4*2509*1.25*2.25*12.25*1.75*2 = 1210200.46875
    total = 5520424.21875

    if zgl enhance isn't there
    2 vishnu - 2*(4*2075*1.25*2.25*12.25*1.75) = 1000863.28125
    3 robins - 3*(4*2287*1.25*2.25*12.25*1.75) = 1654680.2342375
    1 zgl - 4*2509*1.25*2.25*12.25*1.75 = 605100.234375
    total = 3260643.7498625

    2 Krishna - 2*(4*2012*1.25*1.75*20.25) = 713002.5
    2 Kagu - 2*(4*2055*1.25*3.375*1.75*20.25) = 2457812.109375
    2 dino - 2*(4*2305*1.25*2.25*1.75*20.25) = 1837877.34375
    = 5008691.953125 or if we replace the the 2 dino with 2 additional kagu = 5628626.71875

    wt if i end up going with 3 rows
    3*12,744*1.75*1.5*20.25*2.8= 5690355.3

    or using the same exact 16 orbs and make 2 rows and a tpa
    2 Krishna - 2*[(2*2012*1.75)+(2012*1.25)]*1.5*20.25*2.2 = 1277293.05
    2 Kagu - 2*[(2*2055*1.75)+(2055*1.25*3.375)]*1.5*20.25*2.2 = 2119960.4765625
    2 dino - 2*[(2*2305*1.75)+(2305*1.25*2.25)]*1.5*20.25*2.2 = 1944649.265625
    = 5341902.792187

    wt do this all come up with

    wood zgl is skill maxed at 8 turns
    at a 4x4 combo board
    without 2x attacker boost = 3260643.7498625
    with 2x attacker boost = 5520424.21875

    meanwhile
    krishna is doing 5008691.953125 or 5341902.792187 on the amount of orbs
    but kagu's 2 additional fire +orb isn't calculated at all.

    ===================================================

    let's make 2 more example, how much worse is krishna compare to vishnu at the 8 and 9 orb situation

    1. at 8 orbs only
    2 vishnu - 2*(2*2075*1.25*2.25*12.25*1.25) = 357451.171875
    3 robins - 3*(2*2287*1.25*2.25*12.25*1.25) = 590957.2265625
    1 zgl - 2*2509*1.25*2.25*12.25*1.75 = 302550.1171875
    total = 1250958.515625


    2 Krishna - 2*(2*2012*1.25*1.25*9) = 113175
    2 Kagu - 2*(2*2055*1.25*3.375*1.25*9) = 390128.90625
    2 dino - 2*(2*2305*1.25*2.25*1.25*9) = 291726.5625
    = 795030.46875 (so vishnu is 57.3% better at this point)

    at 9 orbs?
    2 Krishna - 2*(3*2012*1.5*20.25) = 366687
    2 Kagu - 2*(3*2055*1.5*20.25) = 374523.75
    2 dino - 2*(3*2305*1.5*20.25) = 420086.25
    = 1161297

    balance off with an additional combo for vishnu
    = 1501150.21875 (only around ~30% better)

    with indian 2.0 active cycling we are looking at an average of 8+ orb per round for a person who can consistently clear the board
    http://puzzleanddragonsforum.com/showthread.php?tid=57880&page=6
    ^^^^
    we had a discussion there

    tbh, at 3~8 orbs, vishnu has a major advantage, but start at 9 orb krishna catches up pretty quickily, and vishnu can only match the damage of krishna with the help of a fully decked out attacker team along with zgl.

    at 1~2M hp trash mobs, both does the job pretty well
    at boss that have 5~7M health? i would definitely go with krishna.

    i rather have more orb changers than a damage enhancer

    plz also note, not only i didn't account for kagu's +orb awakening, i've also didn't include krishna's 2 additional + orb awakening.
     
  9. Zyhre

    Zyhre Member

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    Very good post Kumomo, your numbers further illustrate what I was trying to say. As you say, with their actives up and good comboing skills, you are looking around the 8-10 orbs per board area; the "zone" in which Vishnu is better and can still very reliably activate and get two TPA matches. This is the consistency that I had mentioned; where you don't "need" to rely on orb changers so you can still bring an enhancer without giving up a lot. This "consistency" could be a big draw for some, where others like yourself, would prefer the higher ceiling that Krishna brings.

    I still don't think one is better than the other as they both have their strengths. As you mentioned with higher HP bosses, I can't think off the top of my head where you would face multiple 5 million + HP bosses in a row so the fact that you'd bring an enhancer for one team (Vishnu) and not the other is not really a knock against that team in my opinion.
     
  10. kumomo

    kumomo Noob Staff Member

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    when u do rushes and challenge mode u'll know the marginal difference between the 2
     
  11. bruce leet

    bruce leet New Member

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    Vishnu gets nasty with enhanced orbs which is the perfect synergy for TPA abuse. Green is probably the least popular color in the game. So yea they need a rockstar leader.... Vishnu

    tons of great green subs too with TPA and orb change among others with utility such as Kush.
     
  12. Zyhre

    Zyhre Member

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    Welp, the new Liu Bei ultimate sure makes the Krishna vs Vishnu comparison more exciting lol.

    Vishnu + Liu Bei + Liu Bei + Liu Bei + GZL + Vishnu = 15 TPA awakenings!! With a x2 burst, three double orb changers, 6 skill boosts, 100% enhanced orb awakenings, and 2085 unegged recovery. This may tip the scales for me towards Vishnu.
     
  13. unlimitedx

    unlimitedx Well-Known Member

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    quite exciting indeed. liu bei will be a fantastic sub for vishnu/gzl
     
  14. Vipsu

    Vipsu ◕ ᴗ ◕

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    You forgot the 15k Max-hp part, pretty dangerous for a team without any Turn 1 orb changers.

    Still the new Liu Bei looks pretty broken, guess it's just part of the power creep which is happening.
     
  15. unlimitedx

    unlimitedx Well-Known Member

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    Liu Bei is OP yes, but I wouldn't call it broken
     
  16. jboordan

    jboordan ひかり輝いている ~ ❤

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    See with a team like that i am unsure why i would run vishnu instead of a leader liu bei.. 3.5 with hp boost is better than vishnu no? Granted for some dungeons with damaging preemptives it wont be feasible, but vishnu teams have terrible hp too anyway...
     

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