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Discussion in 'Team Guides' started by EoTN, Mar 30, 2016.
Sleeping Beauty or the Dark Rozuel.
Aamir has 1207 rcv after plusses and latents, so he's pretty much the perfect choice. And if you end up not liking him, you can just feed him to something else!
Got some bad news for you pal...
Both are good. I hadn't noticed Sleeping Beauty was devil type. If you plan to only use an inherited skill, or use her skill for binds ratherthan hearts, then Academy Beauty is good for a 2 turn shorter base CD.
I'm also looking at Oda Nobunaga with interest, spawn 6 darks, heal 3 turns of bind... all on a 7 turn CD.
H.Alraune is also an option.
Personally, I like to have the option of a row of hearts to heal, so I'm leaning towards HRozuel, as she's got the complete package.
Nobu is 2 turn bind clear, not 3 (until we get the update).
Gremory is best bind clear IMO
One tip that helped me clear arena 1 with alot more regularity was using a friend who had holy crest inherited on their XM. On floor 12 with the extreme king metal dragon, just stall for actives if needed, then use holy crest on the last turn for the instant nuke. Then on the final floor for kali holy crest will be up and she will go down with a good combo job. I use XM (Saria)/XM(Urd)/Gadius/Uriel/Uriel and I've definitely seen my clear rate skyrocket after utilizing this concept. Of course everyone is different, just thought I put in my two cents.
Hmm C10 is suprisingly easy w Xiang Mei ? I stalled like 10 turns on Hera Is and then just proceed to wreak everything.
All floor got relatively low HP, and i can stall through almost all of them (except those shieldras).
So, just over a year since the last post here. Neat. Gonna necro this thread, because I'm going to be updating this guide for Orchid's new Uvo! (Not nearly as game-shatteringly OP this time around, but her 300K MP price tag means less than it used to, so yeah. )
This will take a biiiiiit of time to do, not necessarily because there's a boatload of new subs (as in there's only 3ish, 4ish if you count Tifa), but because not too many peeps on JP seem to be using her, so it will take some time to gather data.
So, gonna "archive" the original three posts for posterity. And by posterity, I mean in case I blow everything up and want to go back...
Spoiler: Table of Contents
-Who is Orchid?
-Why play Orchid?
Important information will be highlighted for easier skimming.
I am excited about Xiang Mei. VERY excited. I am sure others are as well, hence my writing of this guide, to help others to better prepare in advance. Before we begin, let me clarify something: Xiang Mei is a bit long, and most of the community refers to her as Orchid already, so that will be the name I use for her in this guide... most of the time. The names Xiang Mei and Orchid will be used interchangeably in this guide.
Who is Orchid?
Orchid is the first of the most recent series of series of MP cards based on the Japanese idea of the Four Gentleman Flowers. Xiang Mei is the embodiment of the Orchid, the Japanese flower of the spring. Orchids are fragrant, and often considered to be delicate and pure, possibly an inspiration for her healer typing.
As for the "Gentlemen" aspect of the series, Taupe1030 on PADx explained it this way: "Gentlemen is a rough translation of Jun Zi, which basically means a virtuous person. However, since a Jun Zi has to be educated to be recognized, and little to no education was offered to women in ancient China, Jun Zi became almost exclusive to the male sex, thus 'gentlemen'."
One aspect of higher education in ancient China was the ability to play a stringed instrument, which we can see depicted clearly in her art. Other aspects of ancient Chinese education include Caligraphy, painting, and victory in strategic games, aspects we may see reflected in the other cards in the series.
Now, with that background information out of the way, on to the nitty gritty. Time for some numbers.
Art, Stats, and Evo Mats:
AS: Randomly spawn 6 heart orbs from non-fire orbs. Haste 1.
LS: 1.5x HP and 2x ATK to Healer type cards. 3x ATK for 2 Heal combo, 4.5x ATK for 3 Heal combo.
Orchid boasts a 2.25x HP multiplier for healers, and a scaling multiplier that caps at 81x damage. The best part? Orchid is a Row leader, which means that you can spike for some ridiculous damage.
Since the first draft of this guide (which premiered before Orchid was even released in JP...) Orchid has FINALLY come to NA, and I've gotten some hands on experience. To put it simply, her playtstyle is Gadius crossed with A.Astaroth.
The breakdown of that odd sentence: Gadius is a heart match leader whose damage caps at two heart matches, but heart orbs don't deal damage, you still need to match fire orbs to deal damage. The analogy is plain to see, as Orchid's LS is literally Gadius's LS taken one step further. Lower damage for 2 sets of hearts, but MUCH higher damage for 3 sets.
A.Astaroth gives a 1.5x HP boost to devils and healers, but no RCV multiplier. Orchid has a 1.5x for healers, and also no rcv multiplier. How does A.Asty work around this? By running mainly healer subs, and two Michaels for their autoheals to help carry the team. Orchid takes a nod from Asty and relies solely on healer subs and autoheals to carry the team's RCV.
However, the beauty of the game design that went into Orchid is that she happens to be a heart match leader, which means that Orchid heals as she attacks. After some hands on testing, I was able to confirm what I saw in JP vids, which is that three sets of hearts and six total combos will heal about 50K HP, rendering the lack of a RCV multiplier largely inconsequential.
Now, with the background comparisons out of the way, on to Orchid specific strategies.
Orchid teams are designed to take a hit. Hypermax teams hover around 50K HP, and as discussed, are able to heal it back quite well. As such, Orchid teams can take hit after hit and shrug it off. This can be useful, as since Orchid deals so much damage, all you really need against most floors is six to nine red orbs and three sets of hearts, two sets of which are available on demand. This allows Orchid to deal with many floors without an active, which in turn makes it easier to save skills for precision strikes against enemies that you can't stall against.
To summarize: Orchid teams have high HP thanks to her LS, and because you run multiple Uriels and healer subs, you are able to heal effectively, while simultaneously dealing massive damage thanks to her OP leader skill.
Pros and Cons of Orchid
-2.25x HP multiplier means teams hover around 50K HP hypermax.
-HUGE multiplier for a tank team, 81x is CRAZY for a tank team.
-It's a frickin ROW team. 81x, with ROWS. GG
-Typical team will have 6 heart producing actives, so that's fun.
Cons (And Work-Arounds)
-Binds can be nasty as your leaders aren't bind immune. (Gadius however, is, and comes with a heart-producing AS, as well as a bind clear awakening.)
-No RCV multiplier. (Similar to A.Astaroth, mitigated by high RCV subs and using 2 Uriels for 4K autoheal.)
-Orchid has no sub-attribute, making it harder to ping down high DEF enemies such as predras. (Use true damage as an inherited skill? No real work around for now...)
Let me be clear: Orchid is an MP card. It is NOT RECOMMENDED that you buy her if you do not have a reasonable team already in your box. Purchasing Orchid without a proper team in place is not a good idea, as she is only a good sub for herself. Now on to the subs:
Reserved for the best of the best, These cards are so good, that if you have them, they SHOULD be on the team.
AS: Change all orbs to ,,, and .
CD: 16 turns (10 turns at lv. 7)
Awakenings: [Devil Killer]
Gadius is a fantastic sub, though he's quite jealous that Orchid came along and stole the thunder so soon after his recent LS buff. Sporting bind immunity as well as a bind clear, and a full board change AS that produces hearts, it's no wonder that Gadius is so awesome!
More importantly, his AS pairs well with Uriel for a half hearts, half fire board, which is the best way for an Orchid team to burst. (Generally, a 2/3 board is preferred, but in the case of orchid, you end up with less than 9 hearts more frequently than is desirable, so 1/2 and 1/2 is the better choice.)
AS: ->, ->, Enhance Hearts.
CD: 13 Turns (8 Turns at lv. 6)
Uriel is pretty much mandatory. With those rows, and that active, plus his autoheals actually being USEFUL for a change, he's imperative to Orchid teams. Especially because he combos with Gadius for a 1/2 and 1/2 fire and hearts board.
A Note: It is HIGHLY recommended that you have at least 1 Gadius and 1 Uriel before purchasing Orchid. They are featured in practically every team you seen, and for good reason. Their board combo is the best means of guaranteeing a massive burst, and an Orchid team without both of them will never reach its full potential.
AS: Spawn 6 from non- orbs. Haste 1.
CD: 12 Turns (7 Turns at lv. 6)
Awakenings: (Attacker Killer)
Duplicate and triplicate orchids can be used to great effect due to all the haste flying around. Three Orchids can be chained with your friend Orchid to create a system that gives you 6 hearts every turn, however at this juncture, the general consensus is that a 2 Orchid team is the best for Arena 3 and other endgame content. Buying multiple Orchids is not recommended until you read the teams composition section, and understand the ins and outs of her playstyle.
Subs that are not mandatory, but still have a positive impact on the team.
AS: Change all orbs to ,, and .
CD: 14 Turns (10 Turns at lv 5) (9 Turns at lv 6 in the JP version)
Kiriko is great for her secondary board change. Gadius should be your main burst change, but you can only have one of him without sacrificing a , cue Kiriko. You can pair her with Uriel to get a 2/3 fire, 1/3 heart board, she can be used on her own, or with an Orchid AS to fix the board if there aren't enough hearts.
Cards that are good on a team, though not quite ideal go here. A general requirement is having at least a so as not to weigh the team down.
AS: Change and to , Haste 1.
CD: 13 Turns (8 Turns at lv 6)
Awakenings: [Enhanced Heart][Machine Killer]
NY Mitsuki is actually a decent sub. She has a , which is key. Mech Killer is situationally very useful, and her active can be very potent if used correctly. In fact, NY Mitsuki is probably the best replacement for a second Orchid in the hybrid team, or a third Orchid if you're looking to run the system. (Though with NY Mituki, there IS one turn of downtime)
Running 2 NY Mitsukis is NOT recommended.
AS: 30% Damage Reduction for 4 turns.
CD: 11 Turns (6 Turns at lv. 6)
Who knew that this guy was healer, amirite? But yeah, he's an awesome sub! With so many hastes flying around, it's reasonable to be able to keep him up almost permanently. On top of that, he has a multiboost, making him that much better if you plan on playing Co-Op.
The only problem is that tank teams don't generally need shields, and you would almost always prefer an orb changer. However if you need one extra slot filled, it's hard to go wrong with a near permanent shield!
AS: Change and to .
CD: 11 Turns. (6 Turns at lv. 6)
The undisputed best silver in FoTNS, Mamiya is a heck of a sub here... on one condition...
You must have an Urd as a secondary skill somewhere for it to be worth running her over another card, otherwise she is better left on the bench.
If you are missing a slot, she can still work just fine! But an S or an A tier card is always a better choice than a Mamiya otherwise.
AS: Change to . Bind recovery 3 turns.
CD: 11 Turns. (6 Turns at lv. 6)
Awakenings: awakening13: in JP)
RRH is not a bad card for the team, however in general Gadius can take care of things by himself, so we don't really need a dedicated bind clear. However, when you have a team bind that you HAVE to eat, and Gadius can't un-bind you fast enough, send in Agent Hood.
Really though, she's an OK card by herself, but if you need to survive a bind, then by all means throw her in.
AS: Bind recovery for 2 turns. Deal 99 damage to 1 enemy. Ignore enemy element and defense.
CD: 9 Turns ( 4 Turns at Lv.6 )
FANTASTIC for a silver egg. I've seen Arena 2 vids where she is used to great effect against multiple enemies. Bind clear AND true damage, on a 4 turn timer... that's a lot of utility in one slot, and a good SI base to boot!
However, as usual, you'd rather have more orb changers, and having to wait an extra 4 turns while also losing out on extra rows and other awakenings means that SI is not the most optimal option either. So, she is limited to niche usage as a predra/tamadra killer and bind heal in Arena... but even ALL that may not quite be enough to warrant running her over another Uriel.
Reserved for cards that can fill a hole in your team, but should NOT be considered if you have better options.
AS: Change bottom row into .
CD: 9 Turns. (5 Turns at lv. 5)
Awakenings: ( in JP)
Primarily used for her , should not be used for her AS. It's too random which orbs you overwrite, and too much effort to try to control. That, coupled with the need to utilize as many hearts as possible, means that if a heart is in the bottom row, her AS can be detrimental. All in all, filler. Bad to use.
AS: Change to .
CD: 11 Turns. (5 Turns at lv. 7)
Her AS is BAD for the team. She has no . All in all, not a good card to use. However, if you give her a better AS to inherit, she can be of SOME use, despite adding an extra 5 turns to the CD. All in all, DO NOT CONSIDER RED VALK AS A SUB WHEN PLANNING TO BUY ORCHID.
AS: Delay 3 turns to all enemies.
CD: 15 Turns. (10 Turns at lv. 6)
Christmas Echidna is not a bad card. The problem arises that she's in no way better to run than any other card, in fact she's worse than most other options. The better option is to AS Transfer a delay onto another card instead of running her, but if that isn't possible, then she IS technically a red healer...
I'll be blunt. If you're considering using ANY of these, rethink your decision to purchase Orchid. Orchid is NOT a good choice if you're considering a NoREM challenge either, due to the POOR quality of farmable subs available.
These cards are not good, but can be useful in a VERY niche use. Literally ANY red healer from the REM will likely out-shine these, but they can almost be decent if you squint.
AS: Change and to .
CD: 12 Turns ( 7 Turns at Lv.6 )
Probably the best farmable sub for Orchid teams. She has a synergistic AS, but more importantly, is the ONLY farmable red healer in NA that comes with an SBR. Stats are bad, but being able to 100% SBR with a farmable card is a HUGE positive. And let's not understate that Mitsuki's AS is very potent as well. All in all, TOP tier farmable for Orchid.
Spoiler: Language Warning
Good fucking luck though, as her dungeon hasn't been around since August 2015.
AS: Delay 3 turns to all enemies.
CD: 15 Turns (10 Turns at LV. 6)
It's Echidna! Yep, the OG farmable red healer. She's... not aged well. Gone are the days that EVERYONE had to farm up an Echidna or get left in the dust, gone are the days she's worth 297ing.
She's got her famous 3 turn delay, and little else. Stats and awakenings are poor, if you must use an Echidna, you'd much rather use a seasonal REM version, where the awakenings are closer to good.
Still, if you NEED a delay, and don't have ANY REM ones, she's just a few dungeon runs away...
AS: Change and to , Haste 1.
CD: 13 Turns ( 8 Turns at Lv.6 )
It's NY Mitsuki's AS, but on a farmable. Somehow, she's even worse to use than NY Mitsuki.
Jokes aside, that's a powerful AS for a farmable, and with the ability to (VERY poorly) replace an Orchid, there's actually some potential here?
Brutal honesty here: These cards are only here in the name of completeness. Please don't use them. If you're THIS desperate for a sub, farm a card in the A tier section instead.
AS: Change to , and to .
CD: 13 Turns ( 8 Turns at Lv.6 )
Parrot is the skillup for Yamato, and she just so happens to be a healer! That's where the good news ends. Her stats are poor, her awakenings are non-existent, and all in all, you'd probably be better running Yamato than his skillup, since at least you get good stats and awakenings.
AS: Inflict Fire damage equal to ATK x20 to all enemies. Affected by enemy element and defense. Fire attribute ATK x1.5 for 2 turns.
CD: 29 Turns ( 7 Turns at Lv.23 )
Well, who knew he was a healer?
Decent stats for a farmable, reasonable awakenings, but such a useless AS, with SUCH a long CD... And let's be honest, you never skilled him up.
AS: Randomly spawn 4 orbs from non Heart orbs. All attribute cards RCV x2 for 1 turn
CD: 17 Turns ( 7 Turns at Lv.11 )
With stats that are less bad than most others on this list, and a pseudo-Orchid AS, she's a decent farmable option. Awakenings are meh, and the stats are still fairly poor, but hey, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel here, take what you can get
AS: Recover 25% of max HP. Enhance Wood & Fire orbs. +6% per orb, up to +180% for full board.
CD: 18 Turns ( 8 Turns at Lv.11 )
Great HP for a farmable healer, but her AS is largely redundant since you deal so much damage already, and 2/3 of her awakenings are useless...
AS: 35% damage reduction for 2 turns. Inflict Fire damage equal to ATK x10 to all enemies. Affected by enemy element and defense
CD: 17 Turns ( 7 Turns at Lv.11 )
Stats are decent, AS is situational but good, and she has a SB! Pretty OK for a farmable. Plus, her dungeon is always available, so that's kinda a bonus.
WIP, excuse the blandness:
The BIG, burning question on most Orchid players' minds is, "How many Orchids do I need?"
The simple answer is, "At least one."
Jokes aside, there's a bit of debate between whether two Orchids or three is better, however, an Orchid team with just the one Orchid leading is still an incredibly strong team. However, the more hastes of the two, and three Orchid teams make for VASTLY different playstyles, and as such I will be discussing teams for one, two, and three Orchid teams.
One Orchid Teams:
AKA the Classic. An all around good team, utilizing the best cards that red healers have to offer, barring multiple Orchids. Really though, this team has already been seen clearing Arena 2, so it has power behind it.
Two Orchid Teams:
AKA the Hybrid. This team sacrifices some of the consistency of the system team for the ability to set up multiple consecutive bursts using inherited skills. While the system team is generally more consistent for more content, this team is MUCH better in Arena 3 where you need to burst many, MANY times.*
(*According to a Chinese Orchid player. We don't even have Arena 3, so it's hard to test that first hand...)
Three Orchid Team:
AKA the System. This team is crazy powerful, having already been seen soloing Mecha Hera and Zeus. (Check the Victories section) Obviously, it is crazy expensive to build, on par with the RaDra team that features RagDra and NepDra as subs. However this team plays fast and hard, using an Orchid every turn, and cutting CD time in half on Gadius and Uriel with all the haste flying around. The team plays like Cloud, where you pop an active every turn, only you don't get guaranteed damage, you get guaranteed healing, plus damage from any red orbs you stored or fell in from the sky. Storing orbs, stalling, and activating every turn are the perks of this team.
Orchid/NY Mitsuki/NY Mitsuki/Uriel/Gadius
AKA the Budget System teams, or Pseudo System teams. They both have some problems compared to the actual system team. First, they do NOT form a perfect system. It's 4 turns on, 1 turn off, and you must always start the system with Mitsuki. Second, NY Mitsuki gives up stats and awakenings compared to Orchid. The double Mitsuki team doesn't have enough Skill Boosts to have any actives up turn 1. So THAT'S a problem. All things considered, the double Orchid build is a somewhat reasonable replacement for the full system, but the double Mitsuki build is doomed from the beginning. (I DO NOT recommend buying Orchid if your best team is the double Mitsuki build. It's fine if you have other subs and want to play around with a pseudo-system team, but again, not recommended.)
Some Thoughts on Skill Transfers:
My Thoughts on Latents:
TLDR: Gadius gets 2 SDR, one light resist, one blue resist, and one dark resist. Everyone else gets 2 SDR, and 3 TE. If you prefer, instead of TE, you can use RCV. Read on for more information.
Short for Skill Delay Resist latents, SDRs protect against skill cooldown increase effects in dungeons. (You know, the anti-haste mechanic?) These effects are becoming increasingly commonplace, and more annoying than ever before. In endgame dungeons like MZeus and MHera, the inability to use a skill can very easily kill you. I
Who gets them?
It is my personal preference to have 2 on each card, and some Japanese players have been seen with 3+ on their leads.(Though that's not necessarily recommended.)
Orchid has enough HP that worrying about any single hit in endgame is beneath her. As such, focusing on any one color is not necessary.
However, 100% gravities are a thing, and you want to defend against them. There are 2 main colors that have a 100% gravity, dark and blue. That said, Sonia Gran has a 100% gravity as well, and her main attribute is light, so I personally use one light resist as well because it's one less thing to worry about.
Who gets them?
Gadius. Why's that? He's unbindable. PFQHera will use an attack that can bind random cards, followed by a 100% gravity, and if the card with your 1 blue resist gets bound, GG.
Stat Latents: HP is not recommended since each card has such low base HP. ATK is kinda not worth it either, since the team does SO MUCH damage already. RCV is where it gets interesting though.
RCV latents seem like a good idea, since the team does not have any RCV multipliers, and is made up entirely of healers. That is until you realize that for once in their career, Gung Ho had a stroke of brilliance: Giving a heart match leader an HP boost instead of a RCV boost.
You see, matching two sets of hearts effectively doubles your base RCV, and three sets triples it. Well, your base RCV will be around 3500, or more depending on your team. Each Orchid gives you 1K by herself, so for a system, you have 5.2K RCV in JUST the 4 Orchids. Now, it scales back a bit depending on the team, but 3500, 3 times because of 3 heart matches, means you're looking at an effective RCV of 11,500 when you match 3 sets of hearts.
Because of this, I personally feel that the team heals more than enough, and I regularly heal 50K+ with 3 heart matches and 6 combos. As such I don't recommend using RCV latents, but if that's more appealing to you than Time Extends, then by all means...
Who gets them?
Everyone except Gadius.
Time Extend Awakenings:
Ah, the age-old disapoinment. Everyone remembers how hyped these were, and how underwhelming they ended up. Well, Orchid teams can actually find a use for them! Huzzah!
Orchid teams have an embarrassingly low number of Time Extend awakenings. In fact, most Orchid teams have NONE. And it's not like row teams are easy to play, especially when dealing with matching three sets of hearts to boot! I'm sure you all noticed the lack of TEs when you started, I was dropping combos left and right when I took my newly-hypered team for a test drive in Extreme Endless Corridors. (Still cleared it first try though lol) So, taking team with zero TEs, and adding 15 TE latents to it is preeeeety significant. If you have 3 on each card, including your friend but excluding your Gadius, then you end up with .75 seconds of extra movement. Which again, is laughable compared to most other teams. However, I already explained why every other latent is superfluous, so why not make it a little bit easier on yourself, eh?
Who gets them?
Everybody gets 3, except for Gadius, who's on rainbow duty.
Thoughts on RCV vs TEs:
TBH, either is fine. Orchid doesn't really NEED any of them, they are just to make it a little bit easier on you, either healing or moving orbs for longer, so pick whichever you'd prefer! In fact, you can mix and match, though obviously it makes the TEs significantly weaker the less you have. If you DO go halvsies, be SURE that Orchids get RCV latents. Don't let the highest base RCV stat in the game go to waste, OK?
The Evo requires radar 2 dragons as a material, and the only way to have gotten them currently was to have gone to an event. So no one's using it because we can't do the Evo T_T But it was the same with the first round of mp dragons too, and eventually they made the dungeons guerillas and then made them drop in A3 too. So hopefully we'll get that sometime soon.
You are correct. I assume that geurillas are very soon to be released in JP, and HOPEFULLY they fast track it to NA, because I've been waiting to mess around with Diara since before she was actually viable lol.
Looking forward to the updated guide. I have been messing around with her in combo master and really like the new improved requirements. Dont love that damage scaling isnt that great given the all or nothing heart match requirement, but its not as bad as i thought is would be on paper.
Please make XM useful again. At least make her inheritable so I can put her on FMyr team lol.
I actually never regret buying two XM. Yeah, I feel bad that she's useless now even after uvo, but I got good mileage out of her. Every dungeon people beat with Myr I beat with XM (to a point). Plus she's SSS tier box cheerleader. Someday I plan to get those Uriel to revo and break out the team again.