RaDra Adjustments for Arena 2.0

Discussion in 'P&D Discussion' started by Joshwa, Jan 19, 2016.

  1. Joshwa

    Joshwa +297

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    This is what Arena 2.0 did to the standard RaDra team:


    o Team HP hypermaxed (no latents): 29,288
    o Green Resists to handle Parvati's 33,992 nuke: 14.
    o Dark Resists for DKali w/ Indra: 15.
    o Light Resists, LKali w/ Indra: 13.
    o Dark Resists for Hera Prempt w/ Isis: 20.

    47 Latents. It's not possible, but just digest that. It would now take 47 Resist Latents in order to continue to play Arena 2.0 with the same team.

    We have already seen one adjustment, since Isis can no longer really help against Hera, her bigger (B/G) replacement has one of the highest HP Totals in the game. Plus, his four turn delay is practically required against the new PreDra and Pii floors. And the latent requirements for the team does get better:


    o Team HP hypermaxed (no latents): 30,940
    o Green Resists to handle Parvati's 33,992 nuke: 9.
    o Dark Resists for DKali w/ Indra: 10.
    o Light Resists, LKali w/ Indra: 8.
    o Dark Resists for Hera Prempt w/ Indra: 0.

    In order to use this team in Arena 2.0, a player needs 27 latents in order to just be able to handle Parvati, DKali, and LKali's reverse nukes. In order to take Hera's preemptive, we now must use Indra's active before her floor.

    These 27 latents are totally doable by the community that farmed 30 Dark Resists for YomiDra, right?

    The real problem that would come from this setup, is we would have compatibility issues with fellow RaDra leaders. You see, a lot of players have already latented their subs in odd numbers (like DKali with 3G/2L) forcing these players to re-latent their RaDras in all sorts of different ways (some would have Light Resists, some Dark, some Green, some a mix); meaning if we didn't latent our team in a organized fashion, the RaDra friends we accumulated, even best friended, may become useless for the Arena 2.0, unless their five resists fits with my team.

    Well, before we start discussing resist latent setups, I've got one more adjustment to suggest. This team...



    ... requires zero resist latents.

    Not one.

    Now, I'm not being completely forward. This Ragnarok/Orochi team (without latents) has 32,645 HP. At minimum, for the same floors above, it needs 12 resist latents (4 Green, 5 Dark, 3 Light). But the thing is, this team has the best targets for HP Latents Awakenings.

    And a lot of us have already HP Latented our RaDras. That's an extra 353 HP, each (+706 HP). Orochi and Ragnarok have 5,000+ base HP, netting 382 and 377 from HP Latents, respectively (+759 HP).

    With this team and 15 HP Latents (20 w/ friend), you would need exactly one Dark Latent in order to tank DKali's reverse nuke. Everything else is doable.

    Some of us have even used HP Latents on Indra already (I did). That's another +289 and reduces the required latents to zero.

    In total, that's an extra 1,754 HP. From latents we in the US can all farm today. And the primary adjustment is a monster anyone can get in the MP shop.

    TL;DR: Arena 2.0 increased damage by 10%, so increase HP by 10%. Get a Ragnarok.

    By the way, I encourage you all to do the math yourselves. The formula I use for latent requirements is: [ (Damage - Team HP) / (0.01 * Damage) ]

    -Joshwa
     
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  2. ASM

    ASM Active Member

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    @Joshwa Another possibility could be running machine zeus/dkali/ragnarok/nepdra
     
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  3. Joshwa

    Joshwa +297

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    Interesting team. Nepdra's poison for Predra and Pii floors. Machine Zeus for the Kali's reverse nuke. Both have hastes.

    What about Hera's preemptive?
     
  4. ASM

    ASM Active Member

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    You have to believe.
     
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  5. Tyizor

    Tyizor Wandering Planaria

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    You can spell believe without pad
    I'm not sure if I'm willing to jump on the believe train for anything pad or rng related
     
  6. ambiguous57

    ambiguous57 Well-Known Member

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    And what happens when, 6 months later, they decide to pull the exact same stunt yet again?

    At this point I'm not willing to invest in an Arena team at all. I'll have a hypermax team that would be the sort of team that could run Arena, but none of this resist latent nonsense when they just blatantly took a huge dump on anyone foolish enough to invest in the current Arena. I knew that would somehow come back to bite us but I thought surely it would just be a minor shakeup of the lineup but of comparable difficulty. Meaning your team would likely still work but the latents would probably be irrelevant if you blew tons of latents just to survive Hera. If their idea of "refreshing" the arena is to take the exact existing one, swap out some of the easier floors for significantly harder ones, keep all the current difficult floors and then buff everything by 10% then screw them.

    Anyways, sorry, not trying to hijack your thread just to complain about Arena 2.0. My point is more that, while the number crunching is impressive, I get very frustrated when I realize that, if it takes THIS much min/maxing for the second iteration, imagine just how defunct this will be for the third iteration.
     
  7. kumomo

    kumomo Noob Staff Member

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    well arena 1.0 was that much about max and min people just took it for granted
     
  8. Joshwa

    Joshwa +297

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    I get the frustration. I felt it, too. And I have no answer for that. But, as a RaDra user, I found this lineup to be a relief because now Arena 2.0 is doable, and the team is stronger than before.

    Plus, for those of us out there with two DKalis, the Ragnarok could flex out Indra and roll with those three actives for simpler rushes/descends.
     
  9. ambiguous57

    ambiguous57 Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't THIS bad though.

    For most teams, the min/max amounted to "What latents do I need to survive Hera?" which is TOTALLY optional. Sure, openly conceding to a 20% success rate dip for certain comps is no fun, but it's an extremely economical decision considering how expensive it is to farm or outright buy resist latents.

    Here we've expanded well beyond that. You have to consider Hera, Parvati, the Predras and the Piis and the general 10% buff across the board.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
  10. Joshwa

    Joshwa +297

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    I don't mind throwing FChoco into my spreadsheet. What team would you like to see the HP/Latent results for?

    If you are comparing him to Ragnarok, he is off-type and lacks other stats then HP. Ragnarok makes up for off-typing with the new Godkiller awakening, which actually makes a LS activation for him hit a 192x multiplier. He also is unbindable, has time extends, hastes instead of heals with his active.
     
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  11. Joshwa

    Joshwa +297

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    Okay Sedai,



    31,398 Team HP with no latents. It'll take 27 Resists without HP Latents (Grn 9 / Drk 10 / Lt 8) for Parvati, DKali, and LKali. Fat Chocobo provides 20 Resists, as you said, so you only have to worry about Green.

    Scenario 1: Use Indra for Hera preemptive.
    - If you HP Latent the RaDras (you and friend), you will need 7 Green Resists.
    - If you HP Latent Fat Chocobo, down to 6 Green Resists.
    - If you put 3+ HP Latents on Indra, you're down to 5 Green Resists required for Parvati.

    This scenario is a total of 15 HP Latents, 5 friend HP Latents, and 5 Green Resists gives you a team HP total of 32,421.

    Scenario 2: Use Isis for Hera preempive.
    - With no HP Latents, and Isis's 15% shield, you will only need an additional 5 Dark Resists to Choco's natural dark resist.
    - With HP Latents on both RaDras and Fat Chocobo, you will need 2 Dark Resists, in addition to the 6 Green Resists mentioned in Scenario 1.

    Come Arena 2, I believe you will struggle on Predra and Pii floors, however. If you replace Isis with Orochi, it really would free up pretty much all your resist latents to HP, if you want.

    -Joshwa
     
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  12. DrammaLamma

    DrammaLamma Active Member

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    Ok, ditching a ton of MP for a super niche sub, Not really a big deal to me as I really prefer the rainbow leads.

    Make the Ra-drag team stronger or more flexible is a lot bigger appeal to me than starting a new team.

    However the massive amount of shit that Ragnarok needs to evolve is a huge bummer to me, I didn't bother with Z8 for a reason. Now he's just an Evo mat:finger:.

    Guess I'll have to start soon.....
     
  13. Fendeezy

    Fendeezy Well-Known Member

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    At first I was like, "It's not that bad, all the MP dragons need descend mats." Then I looked up the evo mats and was like, "Oh..."
     
  14. ASM

    ASM Active Member

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    Its still more stamina efficient than farming alt coins if your clear rate is 20%.
     
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  15. Bilerot

    Bilerot Member

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    Isn´t it a problem that Orochi and Ragdra both aren´t gods so that you the damage and RCV from 2 cards?
     
  16. Joshwa

    Joshwa +297

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    Yes, they both don't get the extra 2.25 multiplier from RaDras LS. Orochi is the one that suffers the most from this but he does have four double dongs awakenings (a 5.07x multiplier) and Ragnarok has God killer (an automatic 3x multiplier to any enemy with God type). Actually Ragnarok will be hitting harder then most the cards on the team since he's looking at a 192x multiplier to the rest of the teams 144x. If he was God type, you would be loooking at a 432x multiplier which would just be too broken.

    The RCV is not as big an issue. You will be using hearts every chance you get. And with the hypermaxed team listed above you're looking at about 5,500 base RCV.
     
  17. seraphthrone

    seraphthrone Member

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    Just wanna point out: orochi has ZERO skill bind resist, and so is chocobo.

    How about the following:

    Radra, Dkali, Ragnarok, Nepdra, Indra, Radra.

    This team has 100% skill bind resist, 32083 HP after hypermax with no latent (with enough latent, you should be able to tank hera premp), a poison to kill the predra floor, and with Dkali, some bind clear if needed. Then lastly you keep Indra's shield for kali floor
     
  18. Joshwa

    Joshwa +297

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    Interesting idea, Seraph!

    I'll see if it works with NepDra when I get home. I just want to point out there's going to be about an 800 HP dip and Orochi with prongs does about double the damage of NepDra. NepDra however would flat out clear Predra and Pii floors, haste the rest of the team, and have about twice the RCV of Orochi. The time extend don't hurt either.
     
  19. Azzablags

    Azzablags terrible case of Sopdet Skyfall Syndrome

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    On the google docs sheet some of the radra teams carry a.ra I assume to clear the predra and pii floors does that seem viable if so what latent set up
     
  20. Joshwa

    Joshwa +297

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    It's viable way to clear those floors (there are a lot of YomiDra users doing this) but I would guess its not ideal because for RaDra you still have to cover blue and green and need Indra for Hera/Kali. Which means you'll have to give up a DKali active. Could you give me your specific team that you think you'll be running with Awkn Ra? And I'll let you know latents and HP specifics when I get home.
     

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