So what exactly were they thinking with gremory?

Discussion in 'Rants and Accomplishments' started by xer 21, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. xer 21

    xer 21 Mathematically the Worst Player on the Forums

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    So if you dont know, they're buffing Gremory. Gremory, aka, a top tier heart cross lead that already had 1000 weighted stats and didnt even have an ult yet.

    They're giving her a passive bind clear and 2 more rows, for the max number of awakenings, and 400 more HP. the passive bind clear is stupid as a lead, but it makes her a fantastic bind clear sub now, and the rows make her team building more flexible as well as giving her more sub potential should they ever make Panda or Lu Bu or Luci or Nobunaga relevant again. her weighted stats are now 1040.

    oh, and they added god typing, making her team building even easier.


    so my question is, what were they thinking? they maxed her awakenings, gave a massive buff to her team flexibility both as a lead and a sub, and pushed her weighted stats past even the Revos.

    but she doesnt have an ult. so...what are they going to do for her ult? they cant add awakenings, and her stats are already in Ult MP dragon territory. what can they possibly do? are we going to start seeing the 1100 weighted stat territory? 10 awkenings? the only possible thing they can do is get her leader skill to 50% damage reduction which as much as people hate myr, this would be even worse. a 144x row lead with myr damage reduction? sure myr would be easier to play, but come on.
     
  2. FXStrato

    FXStrato Neonine

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    Honestly, with the way that she looks right now, I don't think they'll be seeing ults any time soon unless JP whales push for it. By they I mean Ronove + Grem.
     
  3. wangatang0830

    wangatang0830 Well-Known Member

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    I think you're worrying too much.

    All variants of Eschamali have 9 awakenings already. And Elgenubi from Heroine REM (the fire Eschamali) is getting ult in February, so from there we can see what's GH's plans with those 9 awakenings monster getting an ult.

    I think you need to play her to get the feel that she has 2 major weaknesses:
    1. Heart cross and row is a very inconvenient play style. And she only has 1 finger. Which automatically puts her in the '(relatively) hard to play' territory, so for that giving her a high multiplier is justified.
    2. Using an AS to trigger LS is a massive liability, and all those LS that has this mechanic deserve a higher multiplier than those without, hint: Revo Ra vs Radra. It puts a lot of pressure on team building, and for optimal team performance, you kind of have to either a) stack haste or b) sacrifice a sub slot for AS trigger, in this case Jize or Halloween Iza.
    With the above limitations in mind, I think she is quite balanced the way she is. And her ult is due in like almost a year from now, so it's too early to tell whether she'll become 'super OP' or not.
     
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  4. xer 21

    xer 21 Mathematically the Worst Player on the Forums

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    The whole devils series is honestly ridiculous. ronove has just an insane ceiling,a nd the fact that two 5stars who dont even HAVE an ult yet have 900 weighted stats is insane. meanwhile, all the other 5 star GFEs that HAVE ults like Urd and ronia and sumire and L Kali and Zuoh...all have 100 less weighted stats...

    i mean, the fact that sitri and Ronove have higher weighted stats than Scheat and Esch by 100 is frankly ridiculous.

    neither Esch nor R Esch already have 1040 weighted stats though. the ult could easily just be a huge stat buff.
     
  5. *A44

    *A44 Inelegant but efficient.

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    what are you afraid of? Wait until Rei!Myr is here. In the meantime play some Aizen.
     
  6. AMDZen

    AMDZen ZeN@PF ¥ Baby ZuOh

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    Obviously they weren't thinking. Even having her available for a buff was dumb in and of itself but then giving her to a good player was mind boggling. If YamaP had her sure, but the way it played out, they obviously knew she would have a very high probability to win.

    As far as ult goes, that simply doesn't matter. She may never get an ult now and who cares, she is an ult now without the material requirements. That isn't even the issue, it's buffing a card that didn't need to be buffed at all.

    Also, for the person arguing the row play style with out fingers, that is no longer relevant. Who cares if you don't even use rows except for in optimal scenarios. Put some subs that have tpa or both rows and tpas and she is going to slaughter everything anyway. People said the same thing about Xiang Mei and then Halloween XM and yet you hardly ever need rows to destroy the floor. Gremory REALLY rarely needs rows. It's like Aizen too, you don't even need the cross most of the time. Gremory can now go completely tpas and just forget she has some rows, won't matter.
     
  7. *A44

    *A44 Inelegant but efficient.

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    I don't think Gremory is overpowered. When you don't want/can't use a skill you cannot archive 144x.
    There are more broken cards in this game than Gremory.
     
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  8. bp1976

    bp1976 Pittsburgh, PA Born and Raised

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    I agree, I think cross+rows is a difficult playstyle. Yes, Grem gives a much higher multiplier than Myr, but does so by giving up FOUR distinct disadvantages to myr. First, she only has 1 finger, Myr has the equivalent of 4 on each lead without using awakening slots. Second, her shield is 35% as opposed to Myr's 50%. Third, Myr's multiplier is nonconditional, Gremory can only work with specific types (Although adding god type helps a little). And fourth, Myr's multiplier is not conditional on active skill usage, while Grem's requires an active.

    ALL of these things considered, Gremory is MUCH harder to build a team around, as you need subs with fingers to enable time to cross + row, short cooldowns to cycle actives in order to reach max multiplier, oh and by the way, those subs have to have the correct typing. And you can't stall as easily because the shield isnt as strong.

    I don't think Gremory is broken at all. It is NOT easy to make a cross and a row with minimal finger time, while also clearing enough of the board to ensure two more hearts fall so that you have enough to make a cross with your next 3-heart spawning active. Yes the damage is incredible, and will be even better with the extra 4 rows from the buff, but her team building is so specific that it is hard to say that she is broken. I mean Radragon is an MP card that requires 3 6*GFEs for optimum performance. Gremory is a 6*GFE that requires at the very least, 1 MP card and 3 very specific pantheon gods for optimum performance. (Although I would say that the optimum Grem team has two Plums personally).
     
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  9. Lexane

    Lexane Well-Known Member

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    From my experience using Grem, she's very powerful, but certainly not OP, due to the weaknesses mentioned above. I know we shouldn't always refer to tier list for assessing characters, but... according to JP tier list, she's far far below Radra, Myr/Bmyr, Ronove, Kaede, Yomigon, etc. Heck, she's B-tier (even below Krishna) on game8.

    The recent buffs really didn't move her up one bit. So rest assured, Gremory is very....uhmm...balanced.
     
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  10. BonerChamp69

    BonerChamp69 I'm huge

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    Even if they do make her better than Myr with an ult. So?
    I don't think it would be crazy for a 6star gfe to be better than a farmable
     
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  11. CloudStrife

    CloudStrife Well-Known Member

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    Agree and it should have happened with this buff. The buff should have been a stronger shield or damage control without the active.
     
  12. BonerChamp69

    BonerChamp69 I'm huge

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    The shield will probably come with the ult. They had to leave something. If they just tacked on add one second of move time to the ls I would take that in a heartbeat. A row and a cross isn't that hard but 6-combo shields can suck.
     
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  13. CloudStrife

    CloudStrife Well-Known Member

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    6 combo shields can be bad. I can consistently get 5 but with 6 I'm sometimes praying for skyfall help.
     
  14. BonerChamp69

    BonerChamp69 I'm huge

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    Yeah I bring Cecil so I can tpa stuff with combo shields but it's still sucks under pressure
     
  15. bp1976

    bp1976 Pittsburgh, PA Born and Raised

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    Cecil is awesome for Grem....just dont use him for defoud LOL, I did that once and then of course got beezle....gg LOL
     
  16. BonerChamp69

    BonerChamp69 I'm huge

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    Yeah once i get past king fatty I try to
    ignore board changes. I got to beelze with kaede once but already used ishida inherit and was like fuckkk but Ronove saved the day lol. Really like him on kaede actually especially in dungeons that give you jammers/poison orbs
     
  17. AMDZen

    AMDZen ZeN@PF ¥ Baby ZuOh

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    You guys keep arguing about the rows when you don't need rows. Even 3 orb matches are fine for pretty much everything and you can use tpas for almost everything else. Only needing rows for perhaps radar dragons and Kalis. People kept saying the same thing over and over again about xiang Mei when rows were rarely even necessary, they are much less so with gremory.

    This goes for myr too, she is clearly better than gremory but that wasn't what I was arguing, or I believe what OP was arguing. However you still need rows to do optimal damage with myr and there are situations that call for it. Granted you get more time to make those rows. Myr is broken and honestly, far too broken to compare everything else to it. Only n00bs like mantastic need to use her to clear everything in the game.

    I and OP were arguing that gremory didn't need the buffs that she got. She shouldn't have even been included in the monsters that could get a buff based solely on all of the other monsters that could have been better to receive a buff. Just my opinion of course. Sure she wasn't as good as ronove before and she is 6* versus ronove at 5* but this is common. Way back in the day LKali was infinitely better as a lead than dkali despite dkali being the 6*. Yes she had better sub usage. I would argue now that gremory is every bit as good as ronove as a lead in the right hands. People will mostly disagree because of fingers but this just means you need to analyze boards more before moving. There is a reason gremory won by a large margin when this went down, because the guy using her knew how to use her. She is now a SUPER great sub along with being a great lead. This is good and fine, just saying other leads could have used the buff to much greater good to more people in the community.

    Oh and the argument that you need a skill every turn is once again misleading just like needing rows. You don't need the additional multiplier from the active skill most of the time. It's the same as not needing the cross from Aizen most of the time, multipliers are even the same.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  18. xer 21

    xer 21 Mathematically the Worst Player on the Forums

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    To make it clear this isnt about whether Gremory is a broken leader. I only mentioned that she was a great leader to set up the fact that she didnt even need buffing in the first place. Im talking about the card buffs. She doesnt have an ult, and she is maxed on awakenings and for all intents and purposes, maxed out on stats as the game exists now. As a card, theyve buffed themselves into a corner. THAT is what im talking about.
     
  19. AMDZen

    AMDZen ZeN@PF ¥ Baby ZuOh

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    Which is absolutely correct, but also irrelevant. The fact that they can't really give her an ult now doesn't even matter, they just don't give her one until the power creep is such that it makes sense.

    The argument that you can't have more than nine awakenings is only true thus far, it might change. Just like how awoken was supposed to be the end and then we got reincarnation. You never know what can happen.

    There are plenty of monsters that need ults, like SATSUKI GUNGTROLL and even much older, past gfes that deserve one way before she gets one anyway.
     
  20. xer 21

    xer 21 Mathematically the Worst Player on the Forums

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    True. My only concern is that they officially just forced a new type of power creep with this before they needed too.
     

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