[Team Building] Heavenly Guide Suzaku Appreciation Thread

Discussion in 'Team Guides' started by jade, Jan 1, 2014.

  1. win8x

    win8x Light Dominion

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    @black-wolf: Team synergy should be the top priority when considering Suzaku subs as it helps her overcome some of her inherant limitations. That's why I use Baal while most others shouldn't, especially those with better options.

    But before even thinking about my specific Suzaku team, I considered that I have a limited monster box so I chose to invest in monsters that I could use across my main teams—Suzaku, Zeus, and Raphael. So that's why I hypermaxed Zeus & Valkyrie first. Baal happens to be a permanent sub on my Raphael team.

    Since I invested in Valkyrie, to best take advantage of her skill I needed to have as many light subs as possible on my Suzaku team. You can think of her skill as a 2x ATK multiplier for light damage every 5 turns (which is incredibly powerful, aside from losing hearts). So high ATK light subs go best with her. Once I learned that GH gave ult Baal a huge ATK boost and light sub-attribute, I immediately invested in him despite the fact that I basically lose an active skill on my Suzaku team. He simply makes Valkyrie's skill a whole lot better (synergy).

    Baal's 2 skill boosts are amazing. It's great having Menace and 7-Star up quickly in dungeons such as short descends and many of the bi-weekly/weekly dragons. Unfortunately, there's also many dungeons where that's not as useful such as long dungeons like Zeus Vulcan and True Endless. My plan is to hypermax L.Izanami for these dungeons.

    The only sub which breaks the synergy rule is Echidna, as her active skill is just so powerful that you can ignore color & type. If I had Susano, I would go R/G Suzaku as there is great synergy there, not just in type, but in play style. Susano allows you to survive more turns and therefore have more turns to do damage. R/G's leader skill allows you to do damage more consistently and likely more damage across many turns.

    R/L's high attack allows for more damage on a single turn if I can activate 12.25x. Since I use Valkyrie for burst, I'm eliminating hearts anyway so R/G wouldn't give me an activation advantage there. And obviously 7-Star virtually guarantees activation. So although I too often can't activate because of lack of orbs, I get the burst on the turns I need it since those are the turns when I'd use my active skills.

    Against Zeus Vulcan, R/G would have been much better as I used a mostly defensive lineup and, if you saw my video, often struggled to activate aside from 7-Star without Valkyrie.
     
  2. jade

    jade the lamp of experience

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    @win8x. Thanks for that great explanation of synergy through your own team example. This is why I often ask for more information when newcomers ask for advice. Investing eggs, in particular, on subs/leads that will be used across multiple teams is wise, even if a given players wants to focus on one particular team leader. To add my example, this is why I'm such a fan of Susano, for partly the reason you mentioned with R/G leads and higher activation rates, and also because I use him on other spike lead teams that I'm working on. My investment in him benefits many of my teams. For the same reasons I'll be egging Susano and LMeta next because they have great synergy with my team setup and are used across multiple teams.

    Edit: to add my team and explain a bit more synergy with a different R/G lead example.

    R/G x 2 (Echidna/Susano/X/LLZeus).
    Echidna and Susano are defensive. One can nearly chain echidna > Susano > echidna with his longer damage reduction. Couple that with R/G leads vastly higher activation rate over R/L and you can net out lots of damage over more turns safely, thus negating the need for an extra orb changer, whereas R/L would probably benefit more from such an addition. Zeus is offensive gravity and has great stats.

    The synergy really kicks in with the addition of either GOdin or LMeta for X. GOdin can be used for stats to reach HP barrier, which might trump all else depending upon dungeon requirements. In addition, his 2k autoheal works perfectly with Susano's defense, and increases R/G survivability through tough 1 turn back to back bosses like in recent Vulcan descend (Artemis/Hera-Ur/Ares). Finally, GOdin extra wood element sub is situationally important for water descends. CF. LMeta, who if skilled has a better active than GOdin and whose extremely high RCV allows for amazing synergy with Susano again allowing for easy 1x3 heart to full heal, negating the loss the 1.5k autoheal in comparison. Additionally, light element sub is not weak to anything. I am currently using Godin > Lmeta because I need the HP in many cases. However, once I max skill LMeta and add +Eggs to her, I will sub in place for an unstoppable team. It's unstoppable, in part, because of the excellent team synergy.
     
  3. Hellish

    Hellish //

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    I don't have much to add with team-building wise, but I'll throw in my two cents. As an intuitive player, I play by an almost learn-by-failure mindset. I like to see what teams work, by replacing subs and playing around with them on descends. Although I can't explain it as in-depth as jade and win8x can, I certainly have reached nearly the same consensus as they have. I currently run R/G with Echidna/LLZeus/Godin/X. X is always the wildcard that seems to fit the dungeon better.

    I don't know if this helps, but intuitively, I look at dungeon stats and almost arbitrarily decide whether a burst or a stall method is more viable and sub in an orb changer that will satisfy. Because I don't have a Susanoo (which really hurts), and I don't want to invest in my Asgard, I struggle mightily against descends that require some from of damage reduction. In these instances, I always sub in an orb changer like Verche that will assist me in bursting down whatever is necessary if it's possible. Stalling-wise, I throw in an Angelion or Fortoytops, whichever gives type advantage against the entirety of the descend.

    I also don't use damage calculators--another part of intuition-based play.






    You know what? I'm a terrible player to learn from LOL. Don't listen to me. I don't even have the patience to think through boards.

    what is dungeon research
    what is damage calculation
    what is looking forward
    what is team building
    what
    is
    thought
     
  4. black-wolf

    black-wolf New Member

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    Thank you for your deep explanation. Now I feel that I've made a terrible mistake evoing to R/L. Looking to the my box I have Susano and LMeta, so I've could build something similar to your teams, except for Zeus that I don't have. It's one of my mid-term goals. I don't think I have a team to challenge that descend yet.

    Again, thank you for your time and words.
     
  5. win8x

    win8x Light Dominion

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    I was hoping to find some Suzaku lineup trends that would help me in planning which godfest pantheons to save stones for in the future. I made this for myself, but then thought to share this visual display of 0-stone mythical descend victories posted by our @PF Team Suzaku community here.

    Type 1 (binds, status shields)


    Zeus

    Valkyrie

    Goemon

    Hera-Is
     
  6. win8x

    win8x Light Dominion

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    Type 2 (pre-emptives, status shields)


    Satan

    Zeus-Dios

    Hera-Ur
     
  7. win8x

    win8x Light Dominion

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    Type 2 (continued)


    Athena

    Takeminakata

    Beelzebub
     
  8. win8x

    win8x Light Dominion

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    Type 3 (skill binds, damage absorb)


    Izanami

    Heracles

    Hera-Beorc

    Sandalphon

    Hera-Sowilo

    Wadatsumi

    Zeus Vulcan
     
  9. Dlacsjwh

    Dlacsjwh Member

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    This is very interesting! Thanks win8x.

    I would love Jp 2.0 to be the next fest.
     
  10. Derpinator

    Derpinator The Derpiest

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    That was actually amazingly interesting and definitely is much easier to look at as opposed to read.
     
  11. Awardius

    Awardius Well-Known Member

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    Below is a list of what I would consider to be the tier 1 REM only gods for Suzaku. These gods will have an immediate impact on any standard Suzaku line up. There are obviously other gods that will work fine over farmable subs due to superior stats, actives and awakenings.

    Fire
    - None really for traditional line ups as you are already heavy fire with Suzaku x2 + Echidna...I guess a second Suzaku would be pretty awesome. Most fire REM gods work with the rowzuka build which requires more fire REM gods to really work. To my knowledge we haven't seen anyone post mythical clears with this build in NA.

    Wood
    - Susano: Huge upgrade over Asgard.
    - Pavarti: Best heart maker in the game.
    - Kushinada: Really solid sub with excellent active and RCV.
    - Green Odin: Can't say enough good things about this guy. One of the best stat sticks in the game + awakenings. His active can even give a nice heal when in a tight spot.

    Light
    - Kirn: Low CD gravity + awakenings
    - Izanagi: Gets better the more gods you have, but even suzaku, echidna, asgard, zeus, izanagi, suzaku would be strong.
    - Venus: Great active to maximize damage (especially for newer players). Excellent RCV as well
    - Light Metatron: More useful for new descends. Insane RCV, awakenings and active (heal+bind reduction) are what make her awesome

    The best pantheons to target would be JP2.0 (izanagi & kushinada) or chinese (kirin & 2nd suzaku). If you are trying to get Susano, Parvati or Venus specifically, I would wait until their respective pantheons are in a godfest along with JP2.0 or Chinese. This applies strictly to Suzaku and not different teams a player may be working on.
     
  12. higgsb0s0n

    higgsb0s0n Member

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    The main thing stopping my rowzaku team from taking off right now is for the life of me angelit will literally not drop from twinlits for me. I've just recently started running it, but after using some of the devilits i get, im still sitting on 5 of them and not a single angelit drop >.>
     
  13. jade

    jade the lamp of experience

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    @win8x and Awardius.

    Thanks for these thoughts. In some ways, at least for me, it is a little cyclical what the results confirm. I've always counseled that Echidna, Zeus (or some gravity), will be staples in Suzaku teams. The list of clears shows that. That is both good theorycrafting way back when, at a time when the game was different, and also a product of the community building such teams.

    Important to note that GOdin became amazing only after his recent Uvo. It's his HP and 2k autoheal that do it. Lmeta was perhaps always a good option. Both are GF exclusives.

    I'm less concerned with so few clears of other types of teams beyond traditional delay, reduction, gravity, orb changer mix, or izanagi burst, because at least for Rowzaku, we already know it can output more damage than the others and beat everything, it is just a matter of few NA players both having all the pieces, and committing to investing in it. tevvie will be building rowzaku so I know we will get clears soon enough.

    Going forward, I still think balanced and attacker typing--noticeably absent from the list of clears, except for the few balanced builds I've tested--is a relatively unexplored area. For me, they are both sort of like Rowzaku in being very REM heavy, and very specific card based. Some may have those and future cards may make that work. I think for example that JP base can certainly make these typings work with Suzaku, but NA is hindered, by both lack of skillups for some cards and some collab cards, and that is confirmed by the lack of clears.

    I also think we shouldn't all just rush to get the teams that have cleared it all without thinking through our own boxes, our own gameplay preferences, and our own goals in the game. My point being, non-rem alternatives are sometimes still viable, and/or alt rem cards that you may have.

    Finally, I hope our clears have shown how theorycrafting, team synergy, investment and player skill can lead to 0 stone mythicals (even for sub 16x).
     
  14. Awardius

    Awardius Well-Known Member

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    I really like this point. I have had many cards that I initially thought were not that good/useful, but have over time found a use for. Usually these sleeper hits are due to receiving a buff from Gungho (Green Odin is probably the best example) but sometimes it is just a result of finding good synergy with other cards (Thanatos on Lu Bu devil team for KoG farming). win8x has shown this as well with non-traditional rem subs like Baal and Amaterasu. I think a lot of players get easily frustrated when they don't get the optimal rolls from the REM. It is important to keep trying new things, you may be surprised with the results.
     
  15. sammy3469

    sammy3469 Well-Known Member

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    Fwiw, I use a skilled Apollo over Valk for all t6 farming and most 2 week dragon dungeons. Basically gives a third 7-star with another skill boost. Useful for these Mechdragons with the Chimera on stage 5 for instance.
     
  16. tevvie

    tevvie Lives in the arena Staff Member

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    What do you think of misato vs ares? Ares has about 400 more hp and 500 more attack but 280 less rcv, important awakenings are about the same but ares can be on a 9 turn cd while misato will always be on a 16 turn cd (gg skill ups). You can use ares almost twice before using misato once. I feel like if you have the option of both ares is just better.

    Also how important are orb/fire enhance actives? seems like the ideal team is just mass orb changer from youtube videos.

    Trying to finalize my build. prbly ares/chiyome/uriel/freyr until i can get a second suzaku skilled up to replace freyr
     
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  17. win8x

    win8x Light Dominion

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    Ares definitely seems better for your lineup w/ those high RCV subs. Very excited to see your team in action! :D
     
  18. Hellish

    Hellish //

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    @jade With the availability of Suzaku skill-ups, can we add a section for the friend list under additional information indicating skill level?
     
  19. sprcow

    sprcow Member

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    Really digging the playstyle of R/G Suzaku. I feel like the easy-activation Chinese gods are among the best of the low risk, high reward leads. It's virtually impossible to orb troll myself, and with each lead packing a nuke-level active on short cooldown, I have tons of flexibility in building my team to suit each dungeon.

    With that said, I'm struggling a little to figure out how to direct my resources for my non-iap Suzaku team. REM hasn't been super helpful (aside from delivering me Valk and an evo'd Asgard sooner than I'd have acquired them myself), so I was wondering if people could give me some thoughts on how I might focus my exp and farming efforts.

    I already described my setup and current thoughts in this monster lineup post HERE, but haven't gotten any hits on it yet. I'd be great if some Suzaku pros might help me identify which of my existing cards are worth the most investment, and whether there are any farmable cards I should seek out.

    I have two latent Snowglobe Rouge in my box, so I'll be able to dump some red exp somewhere, but not really sure what to do with them.
     
  20. jade

    jade the lamp of experience

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    @sprcow I'm reposting my previous advice I gave here.

    I still think that is the way to go. More specific advice on getting Zeus with Lubu. Pair your Lubu with 297Ronia (FALucy/Baddie/X/X). X spots can be Vamp and DJ. Strat: DJ/Vamp/Lubu on Chimeras. Ronia/Baddie/FALucy on Zeus. Celebrate: You just got one of the most important farmable subs for Suzaku, and you have a good team to farm his skillups :) You'll def. want to run it w/o Suzaku invade/jewel orbs. Not sure how this team handles that. I'm sure there is a lubu thread around somewhere. For levels on this team, plug it into Ark's calc. Edit: D/W Bat might be another option instead of baddie for better stats but lesser atk boost. Please check Calc to figure out.
     

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