[Team Building] Jammer & Poison Appreciation Thread

Discussion in 'Team Guides' started by kiarahakura, Aug 15, 2016.

  1. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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  2. sgt502

    sgt502 ばかぷれーやー

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  3. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

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    With the recent release of RevoAres and RevoI&I the Fenrir ults are next in line. This means, hopefully, roughly 2 weeks wait!

    Thanks @kiarahakura for keeping this guide up to date. You already have an Acubens section!
     
  4. Murdurus

    Murdurus Rampage

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    I've only messed around with D/R Fenrir for a little bit but is it just me or is getting all the colors as well as getting enough jammers more difficult that it sounds? Like I can pop Gainaut or Aten with Fenrir's active and Fenrir's active just eats a bunch of the colors I need. I think after messing around with Fenrir for so long, I was only able to make 6 jammers + all colors once, I can't imagine ever making 9 jammers as well as getting all color matches. Granted, it's mostly unnecessary to have to do that but most times, it's still difficult to do even the 'minimum' due to a lack of board space.

    For this reason, I want to take back my initial judgment regarding D/0 Fenrir and I feel like he might be the better option. Of course, it's still a little early to jump to conclusions without having played him yet but the fact that he is able to stall if able/necessary makes him much more appealing.

    As far as team building goes, has anyone considered going with 7c or the TPA route, or maybe both? TPA is a pretty easy option seeing as how Fenrir himself has TPAs and getting some here and there from subs probably aren't too difficult. It lends itself pretty well to combo Fenrir because making 2 jammer combos with a dark TPA probably isn't too difficult and the team can get some massive damage from it. 7c is much more limited and the best ones are incredibly rare (e.g. Ney and Cotton) but D.Valk, Loki and Sephiroth do have 7c and TPAs.

    Also, I'm not sure how 'necessary' it is for OEs to be added to the team but I'm thinking Tsukuyomi, Persephone and Okuninushi might be solid options for OEs. Tsukuyomi provides TEs and Persephone has a good balance of OEs, TPAs and TE, not to mention monstrous stats as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
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  5. diz

    diz Active Member

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    I think both are worth a play. Each one has its arguments.
    The old Fenrir has a scaling effect the new one will never reach. But the new one has a higher survivebility. But he needs more orbs.
    Good thing is that both have a flex subpool. You can use MultiFenrir or just yours and a friend Fenrir. You can use a farmeble or a high REM team for success. It doesn't really matter.

    PS: Sephiroth is a great damage sub for the team. It is a lot of fun.
     
  6. Murdurus

    Murdurus Rampage

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    Getting 3 jammers + all colors on the board tends to be much more difficult than it sounds from my experience unless you pop an active like Jorm or Gainaut and if D/R Fenrir doesn't get all colors with the 3 jammers, his damage output is lower. I guess you could argue that jammers are harder to come by than colored orbs (for obvious reasons) but Fenrir's active becomes significantly less of a gamble to use with D/0 than it is with D/R simply for the reason that D/0 doesn't care about any other colors. I'm definitely interested in trying out D/0, not sure how long I'll stick with him even though he may be fun. I do have a second Fenrir so I'll likely make a D/R just to be able to have the option to switch if I need/want to.
     
  7. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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    I'm not sure why you are so set on FULL activation for rainbow Fenrir? Full activation is x2025 which is complete and utter overkill for pretty much anything :p Usually when I'm setting up a "kill" board for him I just make sure to either have 7-9 jammers and at least 3 colors, or all colors and just 3+ jammers (Jorm active). This is part of the reason I love him so much, because I can usually get by with pretty much any board. :)

    However I agree that the new Fenrir will have much better survivability and will be interesting to try out. My only real concern with the new Fenrir is that he seems to require jammer making subs because both his damage and his shield rely on them. Take into account he (currently) has no bonus for a single jammer combo - so he requires 6+ jammers on the board. This means you either pop 2 fenrirs or you stall the one turn and try to get the 6 total you need via skyfall (rng-based). Also I'm still unsure how to feel about him being locked to Devil types like Viz.

    But as you said, only time will tell. :) And I plan to make both so I can have them available for others (same with Viz).
     
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  8. diz

    diz Active Member

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    Hmmm...Maybe the shielding Fenrir is not as open to subs as I thought. Rainbow Fenrir really just need himself and himself and Jor (which is not only for jammers). The other subs can be whatever you want. Shielding, Bind Cleaner and delay will be the most common stuff. After that it is pretty common to reach 144x or 225x for up to...idk...maybe 5.000.000 damage. Not that bad.
    Okay, would be higher with a Main color, right?

    Shielding Fenrir needs 6 jammers for shielding AND damage (rainbow do need 0 for at least cleaning trash).
    So you would like to have like 4 (Dark) Fenrirs? Using 2 at round 1, hoping for a good skyfall at round 2. Round 3 using the other 2 Fenrir's in hope for a good skyfall.
    Sounds like a good old system. Then you need a Bind cleaner. Last spot is what you want or a dungeon say you need.
    So maybe we have found the team for shielding Fenrir?

    PS: I Wonder how you will bring the posibilities of killer latents to account.
     
  9. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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    Do you think his activation will be like Myr? In that so long as you sweep the floor then you will still get the shield and damage boost? If that is the case, then I don't think 4 fenrir is really that necessary. Just would need enough to initially get the boost up. :) So you should still be able to take any utility you need, and probably only reserve at least 1 of your sub spaces to a jammer maker.

    EDIT: Now that I think about it .. do the shield part of Acubens/Algedi/Denebola carry through on sweeps? I really should pay more attention o_O @bibi @Carlos R. Marti-Figueroa
     
  10. sgt502

    sgt502 ばかぷれーやー

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    Denebola's shield (and any other cards that have a shield built into their LS through some sort of activation like Diablos, Balthier, Myr, Kenshin etc) does carry over upon sweeping floors, but since her additional attack ties to making 6+ combo you'll have to make 6+ combo for the next turn even if you sweep the floors to get the additional attack.

    Same thing with Fenrir. Only a preemptive will erase the shield.
     
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  11. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

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    Rainbow Fenrir is a situational leader. Matching just rainbows should be able to clear most floors assuming you are facing Gods and/or have 7c subs. While stalling is difficult for Rainbow Fenrir, the flexibility coupled with great burst scaling is something no other lead, in my opinion, can boast.

    Jammer Combo/Shield Fenrir is really odd. Most setups seem to shoot for multiple Fenrir subs to reach 6+ jammers on the board while others are considering throwing a Viz sub in. Once you get the first round of jammers in, hopefully Fenrir skyfalls continue to supply at least 3 jammers so you can cycle through Fenrir actives. Even then, the system is clunky and the scaling is not forgiving at all.

    And yes, leader proc shield does carry between floors like for Myr.
     
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  12. Murdurus

    Murdurus Rampage

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    I'm not saying complete full activation, I know that's insane and unnecessary save for perhaps 1% of the game's content, I'm just thinking more along the lines of 6 jammers + all colors as that's much more feasible and reasonable.

    I think it'll largely depend on the content to be able to judge whether or not 6 jammers is really that necessary for the first turn. If he can tank the hit(s), he can easily stall since his recovery multiplier is off the charts. I don't really mind the devil restriction although I can see how it can be a little inflexible depending on who you have available to you (not that I have everyone).
     
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  13. keithurpal

    keithurpal New Member

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  14. Deuce

    Deuce You are a black hole...

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    Have you tried running fenrir with diablos? The larger board greatly increases your ability to hit full activation and provides you with a combo shield, which is probably useless to an extent unless the next enemy has a preemptive.
     
  15. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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    I feel like I've heard this suggestion before. But I also recall someone having tried it and thought it was more hassle than it was worth (but I think that was with rainbow fenrir - not the new combo fenrir). I'm sure once the evo's hit people will be trying all sorts of leader pairings and I will be excited to hear all about it! :D
     
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  16. Deuce

    Deuce You are a black hole...

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    Yes, combo fenrir(also excited for the combo roots)!
     
  17. Hellcat

    Hellcat What's a "Meta"?

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    Actually, is there a discord for Jammer & Poison users? If not, I can make one, but the problem is the offical P&D discord seems devoid of people that want to use jammers or poisons.
     
  18. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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    I don't know about poison, but there is a jammer focused discord server.
    I will send you the link when I get home, or @bibi has it as well :p
     
  19. Murdurus

    Murdurus Rampage

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    It was actually me LOL. The major problem was that since the friend is Diabos, I lost a jammer creator so generating enough jammers was a problem. Of course, my team didn't have Viz although I had another Fenrir on the team but two Fenrirs didn't prove to be enough to keep the engine going. Someone else might be able to get it to work depending on the team make up though.
     
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  20. kiarahakura

    kiarahakura One Piece Collab

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    Seems double viz subs are somewhat popular on the new combo fenrir (or at least I see a lot of jp videos that run 2 viz). I would think 2 viz alone probably would be more than enough jammer wise with a 7x6 board? You only need to use 6 for full dmg/shield on combo fenrir.

    Heck why not use the new combo viz paired with Diablos (he is a devil...)? o_O
    Hmmmmmmmmmm....
     
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