[Team Building] Mono-Red Appreciation Thread V.2

Discussion in 'Team Guides' started by Vixen, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. Vixen

    Vixen Active Member

    Messages:
    1,454
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2013
    Interesting. On a regular 5x6 board it's only possible to get two crosses. So that's a lot of damage.

    I decided to tried out Kenshin with my Revo Leilan and I understand him a lot better now. He does a ton of damage fairly easily and the defense is great. I don't sense a lot of subs for him though.

    Here's my team, Revo Leilan, Tsubaki, Tsubaki, Tsubaki, Revo Leilan.
    The damage was broken and I proced the defense every time. : )))
     
  2. sgt502

    sgt502 ばかぷれーやー

    Messages:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2016
    User ID:
    323914430
    PADherder:
    link
    Theoretically, on 6x5 you could make three crosses. Kenshin accept Fire or Light cross.
     
  3. xer 21

    xer 21 Mathematically the Worst Player on the Forums

    Messages:
    2,765
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    User ID:
    356,506,474
    PADherder:
    link
    i mean, that's kind of my point. judging people at their ceiling still needs the context of how difficult that is. a Krishna is great at its ceiling. but getting 5 fire combos on a 6x5 board is also pretty demanding and not realistic. An Fmyr, hitting 7 combos and a heart cross is HARD just because the cross takes up so much space, and flooded boards are going to suck.
     
  4. Vixen

    Vixen Active Member

    Messages:
    1,454
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2013
    If you yourself are having difficulty playing Heart Cross teams, here's a guide. Maybe then it won't seem so difficult.
    https://mantasticpad.com/2016/11/03/heart-cross-matching-guide/

    If you want an easy quick farm team, choose an easier lead? I enjoy playing my heart+ teams, and yes I get 6+ combos consistently with heart+.
    End game teams are meant for end game players. End game players should have end game skill.
     
  5. xer 21

    xer 21 Mathematically the Worst Player on the Forums

    Messages:
    2,765
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    User ID:
    356,506,474
    PADherder:
    link
    that's really not the point. it isnt about skill. its about feasibility. putting A Krishna in Tier 2 solely because of the mult but having 15 red orbs on a 5x6 consistently isnt anywhere close to realistic. Suvo Krishna has an RCV mult and can stack rows, which A Krishna cant do, and requires less orbs to fully activate, AND isnt type restricted. The damage with SUVO krishna isnt too far behind with rows, has better HP and RCV mults (due to not being type restricted, and having one, respectively.). im really struggling to see why A Krishna is better, especially when you cant realistically activate fully on most boards and even after some actives.

    And Myr. Im not saying i can't play heart cross. I play Paimon leads just fine and that's even more work since you need color crosses too. I'm saying its objectively a lot more work than a whole lot of other leads for rewards im questioning. a heart cross and 7 combo is just not always going to be feasible because of the amount of space it takes and needing 5 orbs for one of the combos. and yeah, the damage is good without the full activation, but at that point, its nothing special and then you run the risk of being heart trolled (well, you run that risk even if you're clearing the board). We've already seen with the first heart cross wave of Myr and Ronove and Gremory that just because operating with a cross gives you an "effective" 4x HP, its isnt really a 1 to 1 comparison. that's a very orb hungry lead by nature of needing a heart cross too.

    compare Myr to the other two leads in the top tier you have. Grem has a smaller multiplier, at 225, but she can utilize rows, and can fully activate much more easily for similar damage payoffs. sure, you need an active, but you dont really need an active all the time with 36x anyways, just like you dont necessarily need more than 5 combos on Myr. you're getting 70% of F Mry for way less than half the work. And if you're going to argue that Myr is so great because of the mult, then why is Ney there? Ney is contradictory to your reasons for including Myr. You argue for the multiplier, and that her high skill cap should be ignored because "End game teams are meant for end game players. End game players should have end game skill." (whatever that means. yog and Ameno and Kamimusubi are WAY easier to used than any of the leads in your S tier except for Ney, and hit way harder too. they're end game teams. to argue that its not a knock on Myr here that she requires a much higher skill cap compared to a whole bunch of other end game leads is a misstep, imo), but Ney literally requires two combos to fully activate, plus has a really low mult all things considered and basically only works by levarging heavy TPA or 7C subs.

    If Ney is S tier, the whole argument about skill being necessary for end game teams and how the multiplier makes her great and how easiness shouldnt factor in falls flat, because there's no way you can argue FOR ney without coneeding that a big part of why she's great is because she's insanely easy to play in comparison for getting a pretty decent multiplier and a shield.


    that's my argument. Fmyr doesnt fit. its a ton of effort for rewards that dont match in scale to the effort needed. i'd much rather take Grem or Ney, or Kenshin or Cthuga. Same for A krishna. that leaderskill is a mirage because you need 15 red orbs to activate fully and that's just a non realistic scenario. Honestly, your arguments here feel like if you were going to try to defend Anubis/Anubis over Anubis/Diablos. Anubis/Anubis requires way more skill but has a monstrous top end. its still worse than diablos pairings because diablos is easier, still doesenough damage anyways, and just functionally is more likely to be able to activate on a natural board. thats the difference between Fmy and some of the other leaders here.

    Honestly it seems like you rated your tiers laregly based on multiplier and didnt consider whether they actually work that way in practice
     
  6. Vixen

    Vixen Active Member

    Messages:
    1,454
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2013
    Dude, TLDR if you're going to write paragraphs man.

    I feel Myr's strengths coincide and outweigh the difficulty, giving her a top spot.
    - One of the strengths is that the damage is adjustable so she can be played in dungeons that void specific damage. This aids to her flexibility rather than focusing on her outright power.
    - Myr's 50% reduction (75%) outshines all other defensive leads in her category, which is another big reason why she's there.
    - Myr is flexible and scales all cards to damage, so you can stick in a different colored sub with little penalty on damage.
    - Myr has an RCV modifier that no other Tier 1 Fire lead has.

    These other 4 PAD resources list F.Myr as highly rated. Mind you, there is no SSS Tier fire leads currently. The tier just highlights the best Fire leads.

    http://www.bakadata.com/puzzle--dragons/jp-aggregate-leader-list-82717
    https://setsupad.wordpress.com/category/puzzle-dragons/reviews/jp-aggregate-tier-list/
    https://appmedia.jp/pazudora/64140 (Rank AA by App Media)
    https://altema.jp/pazudora/saikyoranking-2-12215 (Second best Cross party in the entire game by Altema.)

    https://altema.jp/pazudora/party/524
    Explanation of ideal subs including EN available Uriel, Yamato, Urd, Inahime, Gremory, Kenshin, Xiang Mei, Rozuel etc.
    Rank A

    I think you will still feel FMyr doesn't deserve a spot at the top but it's okay to disagree. :)
     
  7. xer 21

    xer 21 Mathematically the Worst Player on the Forums

    Messages:
    2,765
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    User ID:
    356,506,474
    PADherder:
    link
    I get where you're coming from but honestly, i think it's worth noting that F Myr is in part rated where she is in the japanese ranks because of JP only subs, and it works off an ideal team which i don't think really encapsulates the strengths and weaknesses of the team. Being the second best heart cross team is a bit of a red herring because the meta has moved far past heart cross in the first place.

    as far as damage scaling, sure but...she's just as susceptible to skyfalls as anyone else. any combo lead is.

    Just my opinion.
     
    mtb911 and Anna Rose like this.
  8. Anna Rose

    Anna Rose Hire Laptops

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Why Tier 1 and Tier 2 are not available i need that too
     
  9. Vixen

    Vixen Active Member

    Messages:
    1,454
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2013
    Lol, well, Ney is at x10 rate just now. My friend got Ney on her 1st pull. It took my 9 to get my first one.
     
  10. Vixen

    Vixen Active Member

    Messages:
    1,454
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2013
    Ney to Tier 2, Ares up from HM to Tier 4.

    Ney just didn't feel impactful as I'd like her to be. She is hilariously easy to use and does decent damage with a very simple requirement. Very defensive and worked with a great number of teams. Her damage fell short on several occasions even at x7 combo. Though I did clear Challenge Dungeon 9 with her and 10 with her so she's not weak by any means. She's the arguably the best Fire sub at the present.

    Ares (x49), up a Tier. I noticed a lot of higher tier players using him -- when asked them why, his HP gives him survivability which makes him more favorable than Cao Cao (x64) and Genrusai (x100).
    Even though CC and Gen have more potential damage, it's nice not to be one shotted in dungeons where x49 is enough.
     
  11. Kingofsouls

    Kingofsouls New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2014
    Has anyone pulled Enra from the Dragon Caller machine? She's a Yog for fire and I think she might be a strong leader. That and I really want to pair her with No. 6 because 7 fire orbs at a 5 turn cooldown just screams "Yes please"
     
  12. diz

    diz Active Member

    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    179
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    I rolled her today And I am currious about some possible subs.
    I have a Ney. I planed to evolve her to her blue form. But now she looks like a Superstar for a Red team. But I do not know if it is a waste just for one, rare, not 'Ideal' leader.
    Lyse from FF collab has 2x 7c. Is she worth a play?
    Awoken Krishna or Inahime?
     
  13. Orange Crush

    Orange Crush PAD's Nostradamus

    Messages:
    980
    Likes Received:
    343
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    User ID:
    360,740,385
    I’ve been itching to use Lyse, I like the idea of random orbs falling enhanced, should be great for Orb/board changers.
     
  14. Kingofsouls

    Kingofsouls New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2014
    Right now I'm rocking Enra / FUA Urd /Pyro Sonia / No. 6 / Split Ult Gadius / Enra with the TE badge. I'm having fun with it and with No. 6 I can just tear through Kali (he gets x14 after teh 50% reduction for her shield just from the God Killers) at the end of Arena 1. For Arena 2 however I may need to put Fujin on someone just in case the dreaded Sophdet shows up: No.6 cannot handle her at all as x27 against Gods means I would probably just fold to her.

    The team's two major flaws are time and high defense damage walls. So far my time is around 7 seconds (Gadius has 3 TE so that does help but not enough). A second Gadius could help as well. I might try that out. Also unless you have a laser or optimally Pixel Onion Knight getting past Predras is going to be hard.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  15. diz

    diz Active Member

    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    179
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    I have a Onion and a Red Ra. So high def is not a problem for me. Only thing that makes headaches is:
    Should I make Ney a Red card?
    It is so hard to answer this question.
     
  16. mtb911

    mtb911 Master Teambuilder, Mediocre player

    Messages:
    1,422
    Likes Received:
    674
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    User ID:
    325,783,217
    PADherder:
    link
    Hoping to get a good Enra discussion going. I just pulled two of them today. What are people doing for teams?
     
  17. Kingofsouls

    Kingofsouls New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2014
    For me, I made my Net dark due to having two Fenrirs, and considering the resources needed to evo Ney she staying that way. If you have Urd I would use her for the FUA. Also your going to be pressed for time to get those 7 combos so I would get some TE as well
     
  18. MisterDrgn

    MisterDrgn You can't take the sky from me. Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    3,461
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2012
    User ID:
    314,332,299
    I pulled two Enras, but I suck at consistent comboing, so I'm going for maximum TE. I was playing around in Ultimate Endless with

    Enra/Enra/Uriel/Gadius/OdinDra/Enra.

    OdinDra's being off-color doesn't particularly matter because the Enras do the vast majority of the damage anyway.

    Seems cool. Even with the TE badge and 6 TEs on these monsters, I'm not as consistent as I'd like. Maybe it's time to really practice combos.

    Alternates to sub in could include Urd for FUA and maybe No. 6 if you actually need him ever.

    See the two posts above you.
     
  19. Kingofsouls

    Kingofsouls New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2014
    I'm game with using OdinDrag (two TE, bind resist and bind heal, and a 7 combo) for the cleric slot. Pyrogaurd Sonia can fill in for those who have her but not OdinDrag.
     
  20. Kami1337

    Kami1337 New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2017
    User ID:
    348,327,465
    Also pulled 2 Enra. I actually didnt want her. But now I got her and her dmg output is pretty hard. My fire Box is rather small...so I will try

    Enra / Enra / Awoken Inahime / Rathalos / Flex 5 unbindable sbr and at least 4 Finger.

    Another Idea is a 7x6 board via Li. Would have to use Tifa for that. She breaks heart orbs but gives a shield. With 2 Enra the missing dmg shouldnt be a problem when I can hit 7c easier.

    Tifa / Enra!Li / Enra / Awoken Inahime / Rathalos

    6 Finger, 5 unbindable sbr. But Have to stall for many turns :/
     

Share This Page