What could possibly unseat heart cross?

Discussion in 'P&D Discussion' started by Reine, Sep 10, 2016.

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  1. LazarusPD

    LazarusPD .

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    Easiest way for GH to screw Heart Cross leads and their shield: TRUE DAMAGE PRE-EMPTS.

    If there's a shield, the monster uses true damage, if no shield, uses regular pre-empt. Both hit for same amount. Makes shields for that floor totally obsolete and indirectly "nerfs" them.
     
  2. ViewtifulGene

    ViewtifulGene Mostly Retired. Still A Lazy Shit.

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    If BungHole wants to push away from heart cross grinding, I think the best way to stop them would be back to back to back enemies with ridiculous defense and unconditional rage attacks like Meimei. Heart crossers need to work harder to break huge defenses, where a glass cannon like Cao laughs at them. The underlying assumption of heart cross teams is that they will find a safe spot to breathe and recharge actives. That falls apart if they get repeatedly thrust into situations demanding a 2/3rds boards with perfect execution or death.
     
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  3. awkward.fistbumps

    awkward.fistbumps semi-retired from pad. Full stam most days

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    how about a timed combo lead? If rukia can make 8 combos in 8 seconds (starts as soon as mob animation stops) it'll be an extra x5 attack. I'd be all about it.
     
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  4. Jsttu

    Jsttu Curious Cat

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    I'd settle for something using hazards but not all in with them like fenrir is. Maybe like in addition to whatever other LS it has, it gets a 1.5 multiplier if hazards were cleared that round. doesnt require you to constantly add bad things to your board, but you can use them for a nice boost when its truly needed. Would turn the poison and jammer meta cards that are currently meh into good subs.
     
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  5. Argly902

    Argly902 DALTON

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    Ez. Make a mechanic that dispels the heart shield before attacking
     
  6. HeartlessIndigo

    HeartlessIndigo Inactive Member

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    What I want to say is that making a new mechanic and implementing it in every new dungeon to completely counter a single playstyle (and unseat it) is beyond fucking stupid, but they did it with zombie leads, so who knows.
     
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  7. ChronoM

    ChronoM 「天地創造」

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    Isn't this easy? They already have the buff void mechanic in the game.

    Alter it slightly and implement damage attacks which can break through shields (but please not with insane damages over 30.000 lol) while giving the enemy with the attack something like resolve or very high HP.

    If balanced well, they stay kinda doable with cross leads, but leads with natural HP/RCV multiplier would have an easier time against them.

    Doesn't break any metas, doesn't creep the power, but would give classic leads a slight advantage at some places again.
     
  8. Aurelius

    Aurelius Well-Known Member

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    Ummm, did you completely miss the rash of dark absorbs aimed squarely at the Ronia/Luci crowd?

    I think @ChronoM hit the nail on the head, preemptive void buffs possibly coupled with long (99 turn) light+green absorbs on opponents with consistent heavy damage pretty much stop heart cross dead, no?
     
  9. ChronoM

    ChronoM 「天地創造」

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    Sorry for bashing your idea now, but I really really think 99 turn color absorbs should stay out of the game.
    It's simply an incredibly cheap workaround to completely rule out whole colors for a dungeon. I'd rather see a more creative mechanics which still make winning possible for the cross playstyle, but much more difficult than with a classic HP/RCV buff team.
     
  10. HeartlessIndigo

    HeartlessIndigo Inactive Member

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    Ronia was already outdated before dark absorbs came into play. And luci wasn't killed by dark absorbs since he could stall through 99% of the dark absorbs (barring a few enemies like raphael or others). Adding in dark absorbs in to a number of dungeons does not outdate a playstyle, I honestly don't see how you came to that conclusion.

    Pandora wasn't outdated because of dark absorbs, she was outdated because enemies began to hit harder, have more hp, and because better and newer cards were released. There's a difference. She was outdated by powercreep, not dark absorbs.


    also, yeah, 99 color absorb doesn't kill heart-cross, it literally kills every mono-color team of said absorb color as well as a decent few rainbow burst teams. There's are more blue / light / dark / fire / wood teams other than just bmyr and myr and gremory and kenshin and ronove.
     
  11. bibi

    bibi TEXAS LONGHORNS

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    I was inspired by Kenshin collab for this. Couldn't bosses just simply have a mechanic that ends the shield before entering a new dungeon? I don't know how this affects shield actives, though, so I hope it doesn't throw out the 1-turn shield mechanic, i.e. Kush.
     
  12. VampyricTiddle

    VampyricTiddle Lick Lick

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    So instead of a Pre-Emptive and Post-Emptive >.> That clears the Shield, Armor Break, Damage Boost or any other turn based shinanigans? I like it!
     
  13. GrinD

    GrinD Too hard to cross and combo

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    The problem is that heart cross shield is too strong. As long as you have hearts you can do it every turn, but if you make a dungeon with no hearts or a boss who turns hearts into whatever, it will affect all other teams as well..

    I've been thinking about this for a while and the solution I like the most would be a way for the boss to know the exact buff a player has, and replicate it.. IE if a team has a shield, the boss gets a shield. If the team has a damage boost, the boss gets a damage boost, and so on.
    It doesn't help with the fact that there's still the shield to break, but it can slow down these teams and make people try to favor others in its place.

    Also it's probably going to be weird to implement though, because if the boss has to wait for its turn to do it (like it would happen with how the game works today), all the player needs to do is to not match a cross in a certain turn.. or kill it before that..

    Or the boss can do one of those "if monster a, b or c in team, use this preempt", but I don't really like these things..

    sorry if my english is bad, I'm too tired to read this again
     
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  14. acx

    acx Somewhere over the rainbow

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    There is already some bosses that do awoken disable followed by skill lock. 5 turn awoken disable followed by 5 turn skill lock should throw a wrench in most heart cross teams because base rcv is usually not that high. It would be easier for a hp/rcv multipler tank team to stall out the 5 turns. Other things they can do is a long duration lock orb debuff with a resolve mechanic. That would favor hp/rcv multiplier tank and pure combo based leads.
     
  15. Azzablags

    Azzablags terrible case of Sopdet Skyfall Syndrome

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    In yugioh there were cards like nurse reficule which reversed healing to do damage so give a boss this mechanic in a no Rcv dungeon boom Heart cross is fucked

    Or we have monsters now that have to match a certain amount of orbs to clear give the boss the mechanic that under 6 orbs don't clear therefore no heart criss
     
  16. Aurelius

    Aurelius Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I agree completely, but I was suggesting it as a possibility only because I don't think GungHo has any intention of putting that genie back in the bottle.

    @HeartlessIndigo Chalk it up to personal perspective, but when I was playing Ronia, I felt there were a few dungeons that were just completely off limits because of absorbs. Your experiences may have been different, but I was definitely not on the bleeding edge of that FotM and that's how I remember it.
     
  17. xer 21

    xer 21 Mathematically the Worst Player on the Forums

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    That would ruin many combo and t0a based teams though.
     
  18. ainvar

    ainvar Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, because Kaede hits like a pansy...
     
  19. ViewtifulGene

    ViewtifulGene Mostly Retired. Still A Lazy Shit.

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    Without a system, she does when her actives dry up.

    No Dupes would also shut down the system whoring, or at least force some creative substitutions.
     
  20. SariaPower

    SariaPower 'cause Saria is awesome

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    Random idea, don't know if this has been mentioned though. I got this idea from MAthena dungeon (I think?):

    PERMA-BLIND ORBS.
    Leader skill can be something like an attack multiplier when clearing a certain amount of perma-blind orbs in one turn. Can add a little twist to it, with a damage shield that increases in strength with the amount of combo you make (eg 10% at 5 combos, up to 50% at 9 combos)

    Possible active skills: orb change + perma-blind 6 orbs at random, increase blind orb skyfall, etc...

    It's kinda like jammers, except blinded orbs can still deal damage and also test people's memory and skills to the max lol
     
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