What if assist skill didn't block base skill?

Discussion in 'P&D Discussion' started by peitoowynn, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. peitoowynn

    peitoowynn New Member

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    When an assisted skill is charged up, it prevents the base skill from being used.
    This is annoying for monsters that are using hazard resist equips as assists, because I never want to use the assisted skill. This is why we all never skill up equips' skills.

    I propose a feature that allows using the base skill even in that scenario, such as a simple dialog box that asks "base or assist skill?". Upon using either of the two skills, the charge would reset to zero like it always does.
    This would be a huge QoL improvement. It would make longer dungeons so much more pleasureful and less frustrating, without affecting balance or power-creep in any way.

    So what do you think? Is this a feature that you would like to see?
     
  2. MisterDrgn

    MisterDrgn You can't take the sky from me. Staff Member

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    This is less about QoL than about balance. The power of assists is balanced by the risk that you won't be able to use the base active when you need it.

    So in other words, they'll probably make your change in 6 months, when they need more power creep/less balance to keep people engaged with the game.
     
  3. peitoowynn

    peitoowynn New Member

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    This is a very counter-intuitive way to balance assists. When I'm in a situation where I want to be skill delayed, even though skill delay is supposed to be a negative effect on the player, it's clear to me that the game's design is in an awkward spot and needs to be reworked.

    Equip assists are clearly supposed to be used primarily for their awakenings, and their skills are often incompatible with the team composition. So if your equip assist skill charges up, you have both a charged useless skill and a dead unusable skill, so you're forced to either burn the assist skill (which likely causes an undesirable effect) so you can charge up the base skill again, or stay that way for the rest of the dungeon. Both situations are unnatural and un-fun.

    There's the possibility of making assist equips have no skill at all, so that they only provide their awakenings and can't override your useful skill with a useless one. This would be less convenient than my original suggestion, but still far more favorable than what we have in the game now.
     
  4. Super Random Box

    Super Random Box REM Trolled.

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    I rather having assists with ludicrous long cooldowns than with no skills...
     
  5. MisterDrgn

    MisterDrgn You can't take the sky from me. Staff Member

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    This kind of thing forces strategic decision-making. You have to decide whether to use a skill early, to make sure it doesn't get overwritten later, at the risk of needing the skill somewhere in the meantime. I'd say it makes the game more interesting.

    But to each their own. Actually, to each GH's own. Obviously, this change would make assists far more powerful, so GH can make the change if they ever want assists to be more powerful.
     
  6. peitoowynn

    peitoowynn New Member

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    That would certainly be super convenient as a skill delay buffer (look at Durandalf!), but it's weird from a design standpoint because what's the point of a skill if it has a 100-turn charge requirement? Might as well remove the skill altogether to increase the desirability of SDR and to get rid of the obnoxious skill overriding mechanic. But look, that was only my second idea. My original idea gives the best of both worlds; you get a delay buffer without the risk of losing access to your base skill.
     
  7. Super Random Box

    Super Random Box REM Trolled.

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    desirability of SDR? Well, there are mons that delay you for 15 turns for as preemptive and we have 6 slots only, which we could using 3 killers or something else. lol
    Problem about your idea, which isn't that bad, is: it make everything way too easy. I mean, what happened to equivalent exchange? You get the benefits (skill delay resist, stats bonus, new awakenings) but don't pay the price (having a so-so skill)... :p
     
  8. peitoowynn

    peitoowynn New Member

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    Not every nice thing needs to have a drawback. Awakenings and pluses and badges have no drawbacks.
    My idea doesn't make anything easier, it just makes long dungeons like arenas and OSC's less annoying. Short dungeons don't force you to suffer from this game design mistake because you rarely spend enough turns to charge up equip assist skills.
     
  9. Super Random Box

    Super Random Box REM Trolled.

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    Except Cost, Badges doesn't on multiplayer. Super Awakenings doesn't work on Multiplayer.
    Awakenings can be disabled on awakening invalid dgs or awakening bind. (well, assists can be disabled on assist invalid dgs, but there aren't a lot of those)
    Plus has a drawback: you can't remove from cards if you don't sell/fuse them, you lose them at exchanges. etc.
     
  10. peitoowynn

    peitoowynn New Member

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    My point is that those things are guaranteed to help you and you will never be punished for having them.
     
  11. Trap

    Trap Well-Known Member

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    This 'base skill blocking' adds depth to the skill inherit system. I think it would be a loss to remove it, because some really interesting scenarios come up when you have to choose between your base skill and the inherited skill that's about to come up. It doesn't need to have a drawback, but it's made a more interesting and engaging mechanic by having one.
     
  12. YamaKyu

    YamaKyu Karin Kanzuki was a mistake. And I love it ♥

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    Basically as it has been pointed out already, having an ass active skill on a nice equip with nice awakenings makes you think about your decision. There's a drawback.

    You pointed out that there are no drawback to pluses and awakenings and there shouldn't be : no reason to have a drawback for raising and leveling up your cards. They tried it with Dantalion's RCV, it's interesting but tbh I think it's good they stopped at him.
    But equip evos which grant awakenings are different in 2 big points :
    1. GungHo's game designers can't know what you're going to inherit on what. For a card without inherit, they know what card can do what in a given situation, because they made the card with a set of stats, awakenings and skills. So they can balance the game and the cards around each other. But they can't do that nearly as much for inherits because nobody knows what you'll inherit on what.
      Which is actually pretty much a non-issue in itself... until you start provide additional bonus with skill inheritance : awoken skills. This can improve tremendously the strength or efficiency of a team, and they have no control on this. The only thing they can do to prevent things from going in a direction they don't want is dissuading players to just blindly slap equip evos onto every single card. Best way they found to do that ? Giving the said equip evo mediocre or ok-ish active skills (for a lot of them at least, but there are also plenty great active skills out there among equip evos). That way you either refuse to take the risk of having an ass active skill when you don't want to and give up these additional bonus awoken skills, or you choose to go for it but then you have to play better and more strategically to alleviate this risk.
    2. It's pure bonus. It's not part of the "leveling a card" process. It's not something you have to do. It's an option, and an option that gives a big bonus : these sweet additional very useful awoken skills that are usually limited to 9 (10 with SA). Getting more awakenings is basically getting past a limit. So yeah, it makes sense that there's a drawback to it.
    Of course they didn't have to do that. The game would have been running just fine without this constraint. It just makes your decisions more important and meaningful. And that, when you're a game designer, that's something you want your players to do. Most game designers want their games to let players make meaningful decisions. And having a thing that is both good and possibly bad usually opens for interesting decisions from the player.

    But again. They don't have to do this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019

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