[WIP Guide I guess] 7x6 crosses shenanigans with Ult Karin Kanzuki from Street Fighter collab

Discussion in 'Under Evaluation' started by YamaKyu, Feb 17, 2019.

  1. YamaKyu

    YamaKyu Karin Kanzuki was a mistake. And I love it ♥

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    (oh no, another Yamakyu big ass post :9)
    (this is still a WIP, I'll try to keep adding to it, but I can't pinpoint everything, feel free to help)


    ↓ - UPDATES AND CHANGELOG - ↓
    Next to come : Monster Hunter collab 3rd run cards.

    • march 22th 2019
      • Updated Zinogre and Amatsu with the buffs
    • march 20th 2019
      • Added sub : Valeria from DBDC REM
    • march 16th 2019
      • Added Yu Yu Hakusho subs :
        • Split Yusuke
        • Split Kuwabara
        • Split Sensui
      • Added Puu (YYH collab) to the list of recommended equip evos
      • Added Yuna from FF collab as a sub
      • Improved the formatting for subs and added a "Added value" part in their description to give quick information about subs
    • march 12th 2019
      • New "advice" about stalling
    • march 10th 2019
      • Added super awakening recommendations
      • New subs :
        • Athena Helios
        • White Snake Jormungandr-Ullr
        • Sleipnir
        • Sakura Matou (Fate collab)
        • Myne
        • Xiu Min
      • Minor typo fixes and adjustments
    • march 9th 2019
      • Big formatting overhaul. Should be easier to access the info you're looking for.
      • Added a little disclaimer
      • Updated my thoughts on every pairings I've tried up to now
        • Also added Ult Karin herself
      • New subs :
        • Shinrabansho collab subs
        • FMA subs
        • Myr
      • New skill assists and equip :
        • Karin equip
        • Edward equip
        • Roy Mustang equip
      • Reorganized the whole "advice" part and some more
    • Updates from creation to march 8th
      • Added subs
        • XMas Ilmina (Xmas REM)
        • Amen
        • Zinogre (MH collab)
      • Added pairings
        • Alex (SF collab)
        • Toshaka Rin (Fate collab)
        • Nemain
      • Added equip and assist evos
        • Rathios
      • Formatting
      • Added new general advices
    • February 18th : creation of the post


    You've probably seen me loose my mind at SF Karin ult form.
    If not, well let me tell you about her :>

    (TL;DR : she's the strongest lead in the game atm (in terms of sheer firepower), and can damage cap on a lucky natural board without any active skill, but building her team is hard because as the cannonest glass cannon, she also happens to be one of the glassest glass cannon. That makes her team a bit hard to build, but there are ways around it and I hope to help you with that through this post)

    We're getting Street Fighter Collab next week. You can see the (almost) full details on on the amazing pad.protic.site, and I encourage you to do so because in many ways this collab is very interesting. I absolutely can't tell if it's a good collab or not but I can tell it's interesting and you should keep an eye on it.

    Among other very nice cards, this collab has Karin, a 6* pull with 3 forms : Base, ult and equip.

    [​IMG]

    There are a bunch of things that makes her an interesting card.
    • First, her base form has a cloud resist. With each new collab and set of Super awakenings this awoken skill is becoming more and more common, however even today it remains rare and it might be hard to get one that fits your team.
    • Notice how her equip form also has cloud resist.
    • Both her base and ult forms are attribute-cross leader skills, and these LS are different kinda in a similar way of some awoken evo. I'll get back to these LS in a second.
    • Her base form has this new rare type of active skill that creates a cross of 5 light (so that you don't have to bother making one). Street Fighter collab has several other AS of this style.
    As far as crosses go I'm pretty happy with her base form LS. It actually is good (or at least, it looks good to me) : the flat almost unconditional 4x ATK boost is rather unique (flat ATK boost rarely exceed x2.5 among cross leads (there are, it's just super rare)) and remove this "you absolutely have to match x combos/colors" requirement that can make non-flat-ATK-boost leads struggle when hazards are involved (time debuff, bombs, spinners, tape, hard blind, you name it).
    At x3 ATK per cross (x9 when paired with herself) her damage output will be very satisfying, especially for a mono-color attribute-cross lead (x3 per cross is usually for bi-color cross leads, in exchange for having a lesser flat ATK mult (usually)). And she does have a HP bonus to provide this bit of survivability that cross leads tend to lack, as more often than not attribute-cross leads derive from glass cannons. She doesn't have a RCV boost but thanksfully light is filled with healers.
    On paper she does look like a pretty nice cross lead that you might actually want to play as is ~ Not too impressive, but very solid on paper.

    But what really got me loose it is her Ult LS.

    I'm probably not teaching you anything when I tell you that since 7x6 leads exist in this game they've always been made weaker than 6x5 leads.
    Reason for this is simple : a 7x6 board is in itself a tremendous buff to any team that is not row based (rows really don't benefit a lot from playing in 7x6 (it is beneficial to them, but unlike all other playstyles it comes with an inherent other counterpart which is : a row is 7 orbs in 7x6)). So to achieve some kind of """balance""" (notice the quotes, because actually it's not really balanced), so far GungHo's designer have been carefully making 7x6 leads with mediocre/ok ATK mults compared to their 6x5 counterpart.
    Hence why 7x6 leader swap has such potential, and why 7x6 leads are almost never paired with themselves : you only need one to get the benefit of a 7x6 board, having a 7x6 lead also has a helper means you're just ditching power for no benefit. So 7x6 leads are paired with 6x5 leads.
    Thats's how the game has handled 7x6 leads, and it has always been quite fair (though the Anubis X Diablos pairing clearly overstayed its welcome by being just waaaaaay too good for a while).

    That was until Karin from Street Fighter collab was revealed :9

    I already told you about her base form LS, so let's look at her Ult form LS.
    • 7x6 Board
    • 2x ATK and RCV for light attribute
    • 3.5x ATK for each light or fire cross
    That, ladies and gentleman, is an authentic 6x5 cross Leader skill. But Ult Karin is a 7x6 lead.
    And when I say authentic I mean it.

    [​IMG]

    On this pic the first LS is Karin's, and the second one is Best Girl Planar's, and she's a 6x5 lead. There are only 3 differences between their LS :
    1. Planar has x2.5 ATK and RCV, while Karin only has x2.
    2. Planar applies it to the whole team, Karin only boosts light cards.
    3. This part of Planar's LS is combo-based, while Karin is flat.
    And none of these differences change anything in how they're played. If anything, #3 would have made a difference in 6x5, but in 7x6 it might as well be flat.
    My point here is that they essentially have the same LS (with a slight difference in damage), but Karin has it in a 7x6 board.

    x3.5 ATK per cross in 7x6 is huge. That's x12.25 when mirrored. The two other 7x6 leads are June Bride Rushana and Allatu, and they both have x2.5 (x6.25 when mirrored, though you arguably shouldn't pair Bride Rushana or Allatu with themselves).

    With her x12.25 per cross in a 7x6 board, Planar can make her whole team hit the damage cap (even non 7c subs) at 4 crosses. It might sound like a lot of crosses but remember that we're talking about damage cap (absolute maximum damage a single attack can deal), it is a lot. Planar already deals 10-20M per non-7c sub at 2 crosses (which is what you can realistically expect and have on any 7x6 natural board), and overkills everything at 3 crosses (several hundred millions per non 7c sub). And 3 crosses is not only very realistic in 7x6, it's also quite common on a lucky natural board.
    So, uh, Karin might be quite overkill when paired with herself. You can very likely cap several times in a single run of a dungeon because 4 crosses can be achieved with something as simple as a Valkyrie orb change (granted that you can match the said crosses)

    The thing is she's a glass cannon (with RCV boost as her only defense). And she's going all out at this. As I just said she has extreme firepower potential, among the cannonest glass cannons. But also among the glassest glass cannon because she only has 3500HP at lvl110 and +297.
    Since you'll be very lacking defense wise, pairing Karin with herself for this extreme damage might not always be the best decision (though if you know the spawns it sounds totally doable).

    Aaaand that was a big intro as usual.

    What now ?

    Well the point of this post will be to review SF Karin's pairings and subs and other stuff which can compensate her weak survivability, and see how you can build around her main weakness.
    The main thing this post will focus on is making her more durable so you can dish out this explosive damage more safely.

    [​IMG]

    Kinda a disclaimer but kinda not at the same time ; everything below is based on :
    • My experience of playing almost exclusively crosses (about 98% of the time) for now about 9 months. My experience might be different than yours.
    • My experience of playing Karin Kanzuki. She's my current main, I'm clearing a great bunch of challenges with her, and I'm trying to share my thought has a player who actively plays her and experience her strengths and weaknesses.
    • My experience of maining best girl Planar for a while and clearing a good bunch of high challenges with her (C10, C30, OSC, annihilation dungeons, etc...). My experience with Karin so far absolutely support what I initially thought : Karin Kanzuki is a light Planar with easier activation and a freakin 7x6 board. They're so the same it's kinda funny. I'll make assumptions about stuff I'm not yet 100% sure based on how it was for Planar.
    Feel free to disagree with me and add to the discussion !


    1 - Team building : general idea

    → You want either big HP subs or subs with a shield active skill. Obviously you can inherit a shield if you need some, but it's important to have some natural shield AS because
    • They'll come faster. When you run such a fragile lead you want your shield rotation to be as flawless as it can be. A good shield rotation will virtually permanently significantly increase your HP, and you can't rely solely on inherited shields for your shield rotation (unless you have a team of Diao-chans with Enoch on her, or something along theses lines).
    • Skill delay will ruin your day. An inherited active skill will be immediately made unsuable even with a single turn of skill delay.
    → Other than that you also have to address another important matter when picking your subs, which is not a matter specific to Karin in particular but tied to the fact that 1/She's a cross lead 2/she's a 7x6 lead. And that matter is matching time.
    Here are some facts : 1/ matching crosses takes time 2/ navigating a 7x6 board takes time. Allatu and Bride Rushana both address that by having +5 sec TE buff baked in their LS, but Karin doesn't.
    I doubt you'll get anywhere with less than 9-10 secs of matching time. I think that's the bare minimum for anyone who isn't a PAD god. You probably want 13+ secs, but that's quite hard to get so you should try to get a TE active skill or two in there (spoiler : get yourself an Enoch). Have your TE sticks be bind immune if you can btw.

    → One thing that you don't need though is a lot of orb-changers. I would advise against having more than one board change (preferably ideally with 3 colors + hearts) and a fast board fixer : it can be either a fixed orb changer such as Valkyrie (heart → light) or even Fuma Kotaro (wood → light), or a card that randomly spawns fire and/or light (Kenshin himself is perfect for that purpose).
    The reason why I think you don't need too much orb change is because
    1. While it can be a real problem in 6x5 (especially for a team with poor stalling ability), orb starvation is virtually a non-issue in 7x6, even for a cross lead. The average board does have 5 light, 5 fire and 5 hearts after all.
    2. Karin herself is an awesome board fixer, she will basically spawn 2 crosses. And remember : your average board should already have at the very least one.
    Karin doesn't need power. She needs stuff that prevent her from dying. Orb change is a way to increase a power, don't bother too much with it !
    So to sum it up, when picking Karin subs priority should go to
    1. High HP subs.
    2. Time extend subs.
      Bonus if they're bind immune.
    3. Shield active skills and time extend active skill.
      So basically get yourself an Enoch.
    4. Subs with hazard clear or resistance, utility or a good board change.

    2 - Team building : subs

    This is a semi ordered list ; great subs are above less good subs, but not in an exact and accurate order. It just gives you an idea.
    • Christmas Ilmina (Xmas REM)
      • ADDED VALUE : Great HP and team HP+ awakening, matching time, good board change, VDP
      • She almost has it all. Big stats (almost 7k HP at lvl110 +297), +1.5 secs of matching time, 2 team HP enhance, an awesome board change which makes her colors and hearts, bind immunity via SA and even a VDP (which you want). That's a lot of features. If you have her she should have a permanent spot on your team because she really brings a so much value !
        I doubt there's a better Karin sub in the game than Xmas Ilmina tbh.
        Thanks @bp1976 for pointing it out !
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity.
    • Alphonse Elric (FullMetal Alchemist Collab)
      • ADDED VALUE : Great HP, shield, board change, Guard break (or L-Shield).
      • Great sub for Karin as well, bringing 2 fingers to the team, alongside these sweet 7k5 HP at lvl 110+297 and most importantly a good 50% shield tied to a (less good) rainbow board change that can be easily fixed with another active skill.
        His set of SA is pretty nice, I would -surprisingly- advise getting the L-Shield one, just in case.
        Honestly his set is really good overall, he's a very nice sub in general, and Karin can totally make use of his tools.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Guard break or L-Shield. Guard break can help clear high armor spawns with less crosses, which is great for orb management. L-Shield, well, I'll always be the first dude to say it's trash but I'm also a user of this awakening. Don't get me wrong. It still sucks. But it's not nearly as impractical to use it in 7x6 as it would be in 6x5 so I kinda like to be able to L-Shield whenever I don't know what's coming next (your average 7x6 board does have 5 hearts). It's still a trash awakening because 5% shield is really nothing, but it might save you someday...
          ...maybe.
    • Hexazeon (farmable)
      • ADDED VALUE : Massive HP, good board change + TE AS, hazard resistance.
      • He has massive HP (more than 13k at lvl110 +297), and a 5 color board change with a built-in x2 TE buff. Not the most optimal card but it does check a lot of boxes. He'll soon receive 3 nice new awakenings : poison, jammer and blind resist, look forward to it !
        Btw, having 2 Hexazeon in your team is legit a nice idea if you lack other options because while he might not cover everything (especially in the awakenings department), this bonkers HP is really something you want in the team. Especially if you pick more fragile subs that bring some other value (like split L/L Yusuke for the VDP).
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity.
    • New Year Tsukuyomi (New Year REM)
      • ADDED VALUE : Good HP, matching time, L-Unlock, Awoken bind clear
      • Not the tankiest card (6k at lvl 110 +297), but she brings 2 secs of matching time alongside an AS that further increases it. She also has an L-unlock awakening which will come in handy very often ! Try to never making a light L-unlock though : if you have 5 light it should be used to make a cross, not an L. Use her dark sub-attribute instead !
        Also ! Since her recent buff, NY Tsukuyomi also removes 3 turns of awoken bind, which can be a life-savior or prevent you from using your Odindra for a weak 1-3 turns awoken bind.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind Immunity, or maybe tape resist if your inherit provides bind immunity and you don't have a tape resistance in the team. Truth be told, Yomi is a great card in general, and an awesome sub for Karin. Depending on your team, loosing these 2 secs of matching time because Yomi got bound can get you in an awful situation. Also she can clear awoken binds. I would argue any card that has this feature should be bind immune.
    • Tohsaka Rin (Fate Collab)
      • ADDED VALUE : Good HP, Unlock orb + board fix AS, base inheritance, tape resistance
      • She brings 1sec of matching time and surprisingly good HP for a balanced card, but the real great thing is her super fast 2 turns board fixer AS. It makes 2 fire and 2 light, and unlock all orbs on a 2 turns CD. Pretty dope.
        With her combination of very nice HP, super short AS and great awakenings she's very likely the best inheritance base sub for Karin, or almost (there are other nice candidates though !).
        Excellent candidate for inheriting Enoch or something else critically useful to you.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Tape resistance.
    • Odindra (MP Shop)
      • ADDED VALUE : Good HP, all bind and awoken bind clear
      • You need a bind immune awoken bind remover, you might as well use the best for this since he also happens to have nice HP and brings 1sec of matching time ~
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Physical killer, but tbh go for whatever suits you. Nothing really stands out to me. I picked the first I got and never changed it since. They're all offensive awakenings, which Karin doesn't really need :9
    • Reincarnated Raphael
      • ADDED VALUE : Good HP, matching time, shield, bind clearer
      • Brings 2 secs of matching time, 6k HP and the rare 100% shield (all damage immunity). Definitely not something that should be overlooked. Unfortunately you won't have a use for his rows.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity. With it Raphael can be a bind immune soft bind remover, and that is a rarer and rarer feature in PAD cards.
    • Yuna (Final Fantasy collab)
      • ADDED VALUE : Matching time, shield
      • Limit break, when >:v
        Yuna is going to be a stapple key sub for Karin when she gets access to limit break. As of now, her very low HP (4k at max lvl+297) kinda pull her down, and it's not helped by the fact that she's also bindable.
        But I'm pretty sure both these issues will be addressed when Final Fantasy collab comes back again and Yuna is granted access to limit break. And I can't wait. Because with her 4 fingers and 2 turns 50% shield already brings very nice added value to Karin. This very nice set is only waiting to get even better when Final Fantasy comes back again (if it ever comes back).
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : To be added
    • Reincarnated Indra
      • ADDED VALUE : Great HP, matching time, shield, cloud resistance
      • Great chunk of HP and 1.5 secs of matching time, alongside a 2 turns 75% shield makes him a nice option. You might also want to have his non-awoken/revo AS inherited somewhere in your team since it lasts longer.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Cloud resistance.
    • floof Ilmina (Heroine REM)
      • ADDED VALUE : Big/massive HP, VDP, board change + laser AS, SB
      • Now that's a funny one because her F/L form has all the SB you need and killers to facilitate VDPing (which reduces your max amount of crosses to 3), but the other one has massive HP but poorer awakenings (though one day these 15% dark resist will save your life :9) so you have to pick which suits you best. Both are great at something.
        I would recommend her ult L/F form because Karin needs defense more than offensive power, and L/F Ilmina has more of this kind of value. But the F/L form has better VDP power. It's up to you to decide, depending what you need the most. I'm currently using fire personally because I already have so much HP, but L/F Ilmina's massive HP shouldn't be overlooked.
        Oh, and did I mention her bicolor Light/Fire board.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity, unless you don't have VDP sub already, in which case pick VDP instead. L-Unlock would be ok too if Ilmina was not fire and light, because if you can use Ilmina's L-unlock that also means you can make a cross.
    • Zinogre (Monster Hunter Collab)
      • ADDED VALUE : Big HP, matching time, Fujin AS
      • At 8.5k+ HP when lvl110+297 Zinogre is a great HP bag, that also happens to have 3 fingers. He's also your best Fujin option sub (not inherit) that is not Fujin herself, period.
        Thanks to @Tetedeiench for pointing that out !
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Super Skill boost. You won't have a use for more power so 7c or 10c isn't your best bet. So you might as well go for super Skill boost. With that said, with 7c + 10c, Zinogre gets a personal x10 damage boost which can be useful to kill tanky stuff with only 2 crosses, so maybe you could have a use for 10c. Wouldn't recommend but it's also an option.
    • Edward Elric (FullMetal Alchemist Collab)
      • ADDED VALUE : VDP (but he's really good at this)
      • Edward is notable for being probably your best VDP sub when it comes to killing stuff that Ilmina hasn't killers for. Since VDPing limit your amount of crosses at 3, it could be nice to have him be the VDP card, his double 7c will make it work. Probably. His active skill is very long, makes massive light (nice) and has a spike tied to it (situationally useful) so you can use it to VDP stuff without using a board change.
        I think he's nice in general, but if you know the dungeon doesn't need VDP maybe have another card in his place because really his added value isn't too big when you remove the VDP :9
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : VDP.
    • Awoken Tachibana Ginchiyo
      • ADDED VALUE : Board change, shield
      • She's physical but not much tanky, though that'll probably change when she gets her Reincarnated evo so keep an eye on her. Other than that she has a 75% shield tied to a 4 colors + heart board change (which should make 2 crosses most of the times), and brings 1 sec of matching time.
        She'll very likely be a key sub when she gets her REvo and actual good stats.
        Tachibana Ginchiyo is also notable for being one of the rare good REM cards that have resist awakenings. You might or might not like it. I do.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : To be added.
    • Yusuke Urameshi (light/light split) (Yuyu Hakusho collab)
      • ADDED VALUE : VDP, matching time
      • With this new split ult, Yusuke joins Xmas Ilmina, vanilla Ilmina and Edward in the "rare subs that can VDP" club. He might not be the best (it's Xmas Ilmina), but he's great at this. Split Yusuke has nice set of awakenings in general but the notable thing is his double VDP. You might think it's unnecessary to have 2 VDP with a lead as powerful as Karin Kanzuki, and wouldn't be totally wrong, but not so right either. If (and only if) there is a single offensive awakening Karin Kanzuki 1/ wants 2/ can use multiple of, that is Void-Damage Piercer. Reason for this is simple : VDPing a spawn limits the number of crosses you can match to 3. And a Karin Kanzuki team will hardly have more than one VDP sub (you can, I just wouldn't recommend it (unless it's 4 Xmas Ilmina maybe xD) since all Karin VDP subs only bring offensive value), so you want that card to carry the kill.
        Though, I'm not sure we have yet a Void Damage spawn that can resist a one shot from a sub when 3 crosses where matched (genuinely wondering, I mean 3 crosses is at the very least 300M+ damage per subs at 3 crosses (and easily over 500M)). Which means double VDP being actually relevant is an edge case.
        The number one thing that is "wrong" with split Yusuke is his only OK HP (at 5.9k when lvl110+297). Other than that he's totally suited to be a Karin sub : +1.5secs of matching time, bind immunity and a board fixer that makes 12 light (in 7x6 that is), so either a VDP or 2 crosses if you manage to move them. His HP<50% awakening is also arguably wasted for Karin since you always want to be at max/high health.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Super time extend.
    • Shinobu Sensui (Yuyu Hakusho collab)
      • ADDED VALUE : Good HP, VDP, board change + shield AS, armor break
      • Arguably the MVP of this collab for Karin, or almost. Probably ex-aequo with Kuwabara (see below). Tbh there's nothing Sensui does wrong ; he has good HP, double SB and fingers, bind immunity, and the very nice combination of a precious VDP coupled with a rare 10c (which needs skyfall or a combo+ AS to be activated VDPing though).
        What really makes him stand out though is his active skill : the combination of a quad-color board change (which is quite rare actually) and a very strong 75% shield makes it a great AS to have either directly as a sub or inherited on someone. It's the kind of active skills that really shines in higher challenges where preemptives can be extremely savage such as higher arenas.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Armor break if (and only if) you can build rainbow. Armor break is great as it allows you to clear floors with high armor low HP by only using a minimal amount of the orbs you need, which is great when you're playing a orb-hungry playstyle such as crosses. If not, 7c brings consistent offensive value and VDP will get you this extra damage to secure kills. Pick whichever suits you the most.
    • Kazuma Kuwabara (light/light split) (Yuyu Hakusho collab)
      • ADDED VALUE : Good HP, VDP, matching time, unique board fixer column making + void defense AS, armor break
      • Kuwabara is a great candidate for MVP of this collab tbh.
        He's a very nice Karin sub in general and brings good value. His HP is quite nice at almost 6.5k, he's yet another YYH VDP sub (half of Karin's VDP subs come from YYH ha ha) and can also address L-unlock (though it's a shame his sub-attribute is light because you don't want to match light Ls). Building rainbow isn't an easy task, but if you can achieve it Kuwabara's value is further increased by the guard break awakening. However his double OE awakenings are just wasted and you can feel they put it here just to fill the awakening set and make it reach 9 (I wish they would have slapped some resist or Team stats+ awakenings instead tho).
        What makes him shine is -again- his active skill. It's pretty unique not only because it voids defense entirely, but because it makes 2 columns of light (2 crosses) that aren't stuck to the sides of the board : this positioning allows for extremely fast cross matching. That in itself is pretty rare, but combined with the def break it makes this active skill a great "hit two birds with one stone".
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : It really is a shame you have to choose between bind immunity and super finger, tbh. If you're already sitting on a comfortable amount of matching time go for bind immunity, else a super time extend is always welcome in a Karin team, and bind immunity could be addressed with a weapon if necessary (super luxury though).
    • Paimon (L/x split)
      • ADDED VALUE : Great HP, board fixer + haste AS
      • Tanky sub that brings 1 sec of matching time alongside a quick-ish orb fix that makes both light and hearts. I hope he'll have access to limit break soon enough though.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : To be added.
    • June Bride Scheat (June Bride REM)
      • ADDED VALUE : Great HP, board fixer + light skyfall AS, damage stick, cloud resistance
      • At 7600HP she's a nice tanky sub. She only brings a single second of matching time though. But her AS is a proper orb fixer which will also setup a FUA, and bring a very valuable light skyfall buff. She can be a devastating damage source if you match only fire crosses and light TPAs (though do you need a devasting damage source when playing Karin, I genuinely wonder), which can be nice when pairing with Diara (since she doesn't need light). Maybe. Tbh I don't know x)
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Everything is great, to be honest.
          Bind immunity is never a bad choice, especially since she does bring fingers.
          → She can be your cloud resistance sub, no prob. As I said she already is a very nice sub so if you need cloud resistance well she might be the girl of the situation.
          → If you use her on any other team than Karin, maybe pick TPA. Can also be useful if you do the Diara thing with fire crosses and light TPA for spike damage. Dunno.
    • White snake Jormungandr-Ullr (farmable)
      • ADDED VALUE : Great HP, inheritance base, hazard resist, board change
      • At 7k3 HP after limit break (lvl110+297), Jorm is a tanky sub that also has 2 fingers and a very fast board change that makes both light and hearts (also jammers :9). Also while you don't really have a use for his two rows, these poison resist might save your day someday. You don't need full poison resistance, but some spawns such as dragon Nobunaga can really put you in a bad spot if you can't deal with the poisons.
        Even though the active skill is very usable, you should probably use Jorm as an inheritance base, and get a more usable AS.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity
    • Myne (farmable, not the DBDC version) (not fully affected by Karin's LS)
      • ADDED VALUE : Good HP and team HP+ awakening, inheritance base, hazard resistance, cloud resistance, L-shield
      • I'll admit I have a soft spot for Myne because I truly think she's such a great sub in general.
        When looking at her you might notice she isn't light and doesn't even have fingers, but her value comes from the utility she brings to the team :
        → She's a rare 1CD sub, with good HP, so she works great as an inheritance base.
        → She brings 20% of both jammer and blind resistance (and you want both)
        → She has a great set of SA in general, and most importantly she can cover cloud resistance.
        → Her 6k4 HP isn't her only contribution to the team defense since she also brings 2 team HP+ which can noticeably increase your HP (with Myne as a sub in my team I reach 56k+ HP, that's more than my Planar team, also designed to be tanky (except Planar herself has 10k+ HP (see what I mean ?)))

        This supportive kit is pretty awesome for a farmable card, which is why I love this card so much and openly recommend her even though she isn't light and doesn't have fingers. In fact, had she been light she would have been a key sub, even without fingers.
        If you're looking for subs to inherit Enoch onto (or anything else you need very often), absolutely consider her.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Cloud resistance. Unless it's already addressed by another card, in which case pick L-Shield, you know, just in case. It's surprisingly usable in 7x6.
    • Xiu Min (MP shop)
      • ADDED VALUE : Massive HP, board fix
      • He would have been an amazing sub if he had usable awakenings. But truth be told, you will never use super FUA since Karin already has a FUA, and you don't have a use for a single light row (if you can make a row, you can make a cross, so make a cross instead), so 4 ? That's sad.
        With that said, we can't ditch his massive 11.3k HP (lvl110+297 without latents, so probably almost 13k with full HP++) now that he can be bind immune. His active will add 6 light so you can make one more cross, or fix a poor VDP board.
        Only pick him if you're desperate for HP.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity. It's actually not as important for Xiu Min as other cards because he only has a single finger (you only loose 0.5secs of matching time when bound). It's just that the two other aren't great either ; you don't need killers (feel free to have some if you wish so though) and you will never use the combo orb thingy anyway. Might as well pick bind immunity. It's always good to have.
    • Athena Helios (farmable)
      • ADDED VALUE : Good HP, TE AS, inheritance base, killers
        After limit break Athena Helios gets some nice 6k5 HP (lvl 110+297), and already has her very fast x2 TE active skill (only 5 turns of CD !). Most of her awakenings are not very useful to Karin as it's pretty much only offensive stuff so the value she brings to the team is somewhat limited, but the combination of short CD, good HP and double SB makes her a good choice for skill inheritance. Too bad she doesn't have any finger.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity.
    • Myr (farmable)
      • ADDED VALUE : Good HP (great stats in general), CTW AS, inheritance base
      • Myr has mostly amazing stats (featuring 6k7 HP) and a short-ish CD active, so you can use her an inheritance base. Her set as a whole is ok, but sub-optimal.
        She would be a key sub if she had any finger or awakenings more useful to Karin, but unfortunately she doesn't really shines with her TPAs (matching TPA sounds pretty unnecessary in general for Karin (can be situationally useful though)) and combination of both 2 L-unlock and no sub-attribute : Myr can only activate light L, and if you can make a light L that means you have 5 lights and you should (9 times out of 10) make a cross instead, or save them for the next floor.That doesn't mean it's pure waste, sometimes you really need to get rid of these locks. It's just sub-optimal, you would want to be able to use L-Unlock with another color than light or fire, because it basically eats a cross.
        Similarly her CTW AS can help with making crosses (it's the fastest to come up and the longest in game) but it can also backfire and ruin your board by removing fire. Again, you can use it but it's sub-optimal. It will save your day someday though ~
        She works as an inheritance base though, 7 CD is short enough that you can have a short active skill on it and have it up twice in a single OSC/Arena run for example. Too bad she doesn't bring more value by having fingers instead of these TPAs and L-unlock.
        You can absolutely use her, these 6k7 HP definitely shouldn't be overlooked, but at the same time there are other cards that can bring more value alongside being an inheritance base. Myr just has good HP and a short AS in the end.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Whatever. Karin already covers FUA, and several other subs also do that. TPA and L-unlock are offensive which will eat your light so they're not too much desired. Though I think TPA is the most OK.
    • Valeria (Dragonbound/Dragoncaller REM)
      • ADDED VALUE : Big HP and team HP+, guard break
      • Valeria is a heck of a HP stick. She's only that, but she does it at full throttle. With her combination of 8k HP (lvl110+297) and 4 team HP+ awakenings she'll push your team HP to new highs : that's a total of 8 team HP+ when playing Karin X Karin. That's a big x1.4 HP, almost the same as base Karin's LS ! With so much of these awakenings Valeria herself virtually has more than 11k HP, and if you have a Hexazeon in the team it would be like he had 18k+ HP. You should have no trouble reaching 60k+ HP if you have Valeria and a bunch of HP subs in the team.
        Unfortunately this massive HP boost is the only real value she brings to the team, as none of her SA or awakenings are notably interesting for Karin, and her AS is only situationaly useful. With something like a shield AS she would have been borderline a key sub, but as is I can only recommend her if you're desperate for HP.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Guard break if you can build rainbow, else 7c.
    • Alex Louis Armstrong (Full Metal Alchemist collab)
      • ADDED VALUE : Good HP and team HP+ awakenings, inheritance base
      • With a 3CD hazard clear active skill, 6k HP and 2 Team HP+ awakenings, Alex Louis Armstrong is a surprisingly nice inheritance base, especially for a 5* pull.
        He would be a key sub if he had fingers, so only pick him if you're desperate for HP or need an inheritance base for another useful active skill such as Enoch or Odysseus.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity. Or Team HP+ if you're desperate for HP. Tbh I'm genuinely wondering which one would be best. I think bind immunity wins because you will loose HP if you get bound, but the value of an additional Team HP+ still makes it an option to consider.
    • Amatsu (Monster Hunter collab)
      • ADDED VALUE : Massive HP, inheritance base
      • Still an excellent sub in general. He's barely compatible with Karin (his AS doesn't removes light nor fire, but absolutely doesn't help either) but similarly if you're desperate for HP well Amatsu sits on more than 12k HP at lvl110+297 so it absolutely does have some. Its active skill is also short enough that you can inherit something else on top of it so feel free to actually use it as an inheritance base after the buff is active.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Team HP+. Or maybe L-shield if you want to be edgy. But tbh not using Team HP+ when you have 12k HP subs in your team feels kinda wasted I think.
    • Sleipnir (Monster exchange)
      • ADDED VALUE : Great HP and team HP+ awakening, shield + void color absorb AS
      • Sleipnir's lack of finger, main wood attribute and auto-heal awakenings are what prevent him to be a great sub. But it's a nice option nonetheless ; it brings a team HP+ awakening (which is always nice) and after limit break you get 7k3 HP out of it. The best part is the active skill though, it both bypasses color absorb and gets you a very strong 75% shield. This is an ideal combination to run A4 because after the puppeteer floor (light/dark absorb) you might encounter Diara which has a big 60k preempt. I guess you might want to have this as an inherit instead, but if you have him and lack better option well Sleipnir can totally contribute to the team.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity.
    • Roy Mustang (FullMetal Alchemist collab) (not fully affected by Karin's LS)
      • ADDED VALUE : Hazard resistance, matching time
      • While not fully compatible with Karin, Roy Mustang is notable for the big utility he brings to the team. His HP is straight up not good, but the fact that he brings 60% blind resistance and 2secs of matching time to the team by himself makes up for that. His active skill also makes massive fire, which might allow VDPing without using a board change.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity.
    • Sakura Matou (Fate collab) (not fully affected by Karin's LS)
      • ADDED VALUE : Bind/awoken bind clear + TE AS, guard break or L-shield, tape resistance.
      • Questionnable sub since she's both not super tanky and not light. You can absolutely use her but there might also be ways around it. But the reason why I'm adding her here is because she has a natural tape resist awakening and that is a precious asset because it can free both a SA slot and an equip evo slot. She also happens to be a bind immune bind/awoken bind remover (5 turns) with a built-in TE buff, which is definitely useful. Also double fingers and SB.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Guard break, if you can build rainbow, else L-shield, even if it's a trash awakening. It might save you someday, and in 7x6 it's not that much an annoyance to use tbh. You don't need FUA.
    • Amen (MP Shop) (not fully affected by Karin's LS)
      • ADDED VALUE : Big HP, matching time, board fix, L-unlock
      • Tanky time extend stick (+2 secs) that will soon-ish receive limit break (for even more tankyness) which you also should use as an inheritance base : his active skill is a short 3CD random 3-fire maker. It can fix your board, or you can decide to inherit a better active skill on it.
        Also bind immune :>
        It's a shame he isn't light so he doesn't fully benefit from Karin's LS. Though you can afford it because she already has so much power, and Amen has so much value. Try to see if you don't have better options though.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : 7c. They all bring additional power (which isn't a necessity), but 7c is most suited to Karin since Amen already has a natural L-unlock, and you want to stay at high HP as much as possible with Karin.
    • Orpharion (farmable)
      • ADDED VALUE : Good HP, SB, inheritance base
      • Probably only if you're desperate for HP tbh, but at least he's also a nice inheritance base with plenty of SB so there's that. Not too great otherwise. It's an option.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Skill boost.
    • Napoleon
      • ADDED VALUE : Shield, board fix
        Props to /u/Shuai_Nerd for finding that out ; two Napoleons subs can almost get you permanent shield, and a guaranteed cross for at each use. Not too bad :9
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Super time extend.
    • Gadius (F/x split) (not fully affected by Karin's LS)
      • ADDED VALUE : Matching time
        Only pick him if you're desperate for fingers. He's far better of as an inherit because his AS is actually pretty great. Limit break on 5* GFE, when >:v
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : To be added.
    • Hakuren (Shinrabansho collab)
      • ADDED VALUE : Good HP, hazard resistance, board fix + void defense AS.
      • She only has a single finger, but ironically she's very likely Karin's best option/sub in this collab, and the only one that is worth being a main sub : despite the fact she's a 5* pull, she does have 6k HP. However, her main features that might make her a good sub overall are:
        → her active skill that guarantees 2 crosses and breaks defense so that you can kill annoying armor floors like Noah with only this active skill.
        → her double poison and jammer resistance. Poison resistance isn't too much of a deal for Karin since she has so much RCV (especially when paired with herself), but bombs are straight up bad for crosses, so I highly recommend trying to resist them. Hakuren is a rare sub that can do that. This shouldn't be overlooked.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity
    • Kanan (Shinrabansho collab)
      • ADDED VALUE : Team HP+ awakening, RCV stick, bind/awoken bind clear + no skyfall AS
      • Second best Karin sub in this collab, after Hakuren I think. Her HP might be mediocre at only 5k, but she does have a bunch of features going for her to compensate :
        → With her double team HP awakening, she actually virtually has 5.5k HP, and significantly increases the team HP.
        → She's a RCV stick. Now, you would think that you might not want need one (especially if you pair evo Karin with herself), but she can help with RCV debuffs if you're affected by one or heavy poison boards, because as healer herself she brings massive RCV per heart-TPA with heart triple heart enhanced awakening.
        → She's an incredibly fast 5 turns awoken bind/regular bind clearer, because she has a no-skyfall close tied to it, which also helps a lot against spawns that need damage control, because, you know, 7x6 skyfalls....
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Cloud resistance, if you don't have it covered by something else. Else Super time extend is obviously always welcome. Both are great tbh, it's too bad you have to pick between these two.
    • En (Shinrabansho collab)
      • ADDED VALUE : RCV debuff eraser, matching time
      • He's quite off-color since he only has light sub-attribute, but he does bring ok HP to the team, 3 fingers, guard break (only situationally useful though since Karin can easily break armors with sheer power) and he can be bind immune. But most importantly he's the fastest RCV debuff eraser : even with her x2 RCV LS, Karin can get into trouble if she eats a RCV debuff (especially if you don't pair with Evo Karin herself) because with so few HP you always want to be at full in harder challenges, so RCV debuff can be critical if you also have to deal with poison typically.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Bind immunity.
    • Ruby (Shinrabansho collab)
      • ADDED VALUE : Team HP+ awakening, all awoken bind clear AS
      • With her double SB, double fingers, bind immunity, a team HP awakening (that Karin wants) and ideal attributes, Ruby is totally suited to be a Karin sub. But since she's a 5* pull you can't expect her to have too much HP, especially as she also happens to be a healer, so her 5k HP is kinda mediocre/ok-ish in Karin's standard.
        What makes her an option to consider is her awoken skill bind clear. If you run a fully bind immune team (which you should), it might be ok to only have an awoken bind clearer, and nothing to address regular bind (some dungeon will gladly prove this wrong though by having spawns that awoken binds then binds you :9).
        However tbh I fail to see a situation where you would want her instead of Odindra. Still. She exist.
        • RECOMMENDED SUPER AWAKENING : Wow, much choice, amazing.
    If you have other ideas go ahead and let us know o/


    3 - Pairings

    Truth is there aren't so many pairings worth being used with Karin. Of course it depends on how you want to play her, but since she's fragile you might want to pair with a lead that can make up for that. Here are some options.

    • Ult Karin Kanzuki (Street Fighter Collab)
      Stating obvious stuff here but despite the fact that she's very fragile, and granted you can reach a good amount of HP, Karin is probably her best pairing.
      The idea is if you can reach a decent amount of HP (try to aim at least for 45k+HP I guess ? 50k is starting to get comfy because non-executions hits rarely go above 50k) then you can't really die because Karin paired with herself only needs a single set of 3 hearts to heal back to full (which is virtually always available in a 7x6 board). Of course, any hazards can ruin this so if you want to run this pairing in harder challenges, hazard resistance should be one of your priorities (spoiler : it's quite hard to cover everything since you also want a few key inherits in your team).
      This is how I've been playing Planar for several months and tackling several high challenges (OSC, C10, C30, etc...).
      No need to tell you how bonkers the damage output is. I'm pretty sure she's the single strongest lead in the game atm. Just like Planar, most spawns die at 2 crosses, and spawns that can resist 3 are extremely rare. 4 crosses will just make all fire and light subs hit damage cap (not their sub-att), which is achievable on a natural board without active skill. This is how strong Karin is paired with herself.
      This is my pairing of choice, I play that far more than any other pairing below (even Kenshin). My team reaches 56k HP.
    • Kenshin (Kenshin collab)
      The very firstest thing I had in mind when I saw Ult Karin is how bonkers she would be once paired with Kenshin.
      It turns out the 25% shield you get from Kenshin is not that incredible in general because 25% shield can't fix Karin's inherent weakness, but out of the pairings that bring defense Kenshin is by far the strongest (in terms of firepower).
      Sure the shield will only be 25%. But they're the most synergistic cross pairing in the game so far (even Allatu x Planar or Bride Rushana x Rushana have a tinsy bit less synergy (they have plenty though)).
      Kenshin has x3 ATK per light or fire cross, and x2.5 ATK + 25% shield for a match of fire and light.
      Basically this pairing is the most offensively balanced of all. It only has a tinsy bit of defense (not much but it exist) but the power potential of Karin X Kenshin can only be matched by Karin X Karin, basically. It feels great to use, and Kenshin's active skill is a great board fixer with light/fire skyfall. It's awesome to play with Kenshin, very recommended.
    • Base Karin (Street Fighter collab)
      I already covered her earlier in this post so there's not much I can add but basically I think she fixes Ult Karin decently. x1.5HP is not much but that's enough to go from 40k HP (which is acceptable but mediocre for higher challenges) to 60k (which is comfortable (I tackle higher challenges with 55k HP with Planar)). The Ult Karin's RCV mult will also help to keep these HP in high values at any time. Lastly, her built +2 secs of matching time will be a huge added value. I would generally advise getting the TE badge as it helps with consistency (getting these 11+ secs of matching is really hard), but since base form Karin brings some more time you might want to use HP badge instead.
      2 light crosses with Base Karin X Ult Karin is already a huge x882 mult, which you can push further with either a 3rd light cross (don't mess it up, it's not inherently easy) or some fire crosses.
      Lastly, pairing with base Karin means you won't have to worry about clouds. That's a detail but to me it's important.
      Anyway, great pairing overall. I would even assume Base Karin was meant to be paired with Ult Karin from the beginning.
      A piece of advice maybe : If you want to use base Karin as a pairing for Ult Karin, you might want to adjust your team to generate more light, else it'll feel weird ; fire crosses won't have as much impact as light crosses, and it will feel weird.
    • Rin Tohsaka (Fate Collab)
      A questionable pairing since she's not a cross lead. But. The idea is that she has a double 25% shield, which grants you 43% for full activation. And the nice thing is that activating Rin's double shield is nothing really hard, especially in 7x6 : she gets one for a fire and light match, and another for matching a set of 5 non-fire/light (can be hearts, wood, dark, water or hazards). That's all you need for this sweet 43% shield. And it's not like she's weak to compensate, you actually get a great x17,5 ATK mult for full activation, which is a lot for a card that has so much built-in shield. You obviously won't have nearly as much power as with an actual cross pairing, but you can still deal plenty with Karin X Rin.
      Give her a try if you lack other options (cross leads friends are rare → Tohsaka Rin friends are not).
      Thanks again @Noc for pointing that out !
    • Paimon (L/x split)
      Paimon has 2 ults which are both interesting to use as pairings for Karin.
      → L/Wt Paimon has x4 ATK per light cross, and 35% shield + x3 ATK for a heart cross.
      → L/x Paimon has x3 ATK per light cross, and 50% shield + x3 ATK for a heart cross.
      While both forms are equally good in different matters, I have a couple reasons to think L/x Paimon is the one to pick here.
      Obviously his bigger shield is the main reason why you would want L/x Paimon. 50% shield for a heart cross perfectly addresses Karin's defense problem. It comes with a weaker cross power, but as I said several times already, Karin does not need additional power. She need defense and utility. L/x Paimon has exactly this.
      Another reason however why you would want L/x Paimon is his stats. He has 100 weighted stats higher than its L/B form, and most importanly 2k HP more, and that is absolutely not negligible when Karin herself is so fragile.
      Other than that I would like to rise awareness on the fact that Karin's AS has perfect synergy with a Paimon pairing sinche she not only spawns 5 light and 5 fire, she also spawns 5 hearts to make that sweet heart-cross.
      That sounds like a great pairing if you ask me.
      However similarly to Base Karin, the synergy isn't super good because your fire crosses will only have little value, so it'll feel weird.
    • Diara (farmable) (not fully affected by Karin's LS)
      Diara is a bit questionable but a nice pairing nonetheless (also farmable).
      The thing with Diara is that she isn't fully affected by Karin's LS ; no problem with the crosses, but she doesn't get the flat ATK and RCV boost. I would say it's arguably a non-issue but absolutely quite sad when you see her 3k5 ATK :9 But again, it's not like Karin needs her firepower anyway.
      What Karin needs is defense. And Diara is perfect for that because her shield is tied to making 7 combos... which is pretty much granted in a 7x6 board ! So unless you mess up your comboing, you will basically play with a permanent precious 50% shield.
      Diara has 3 fingers, and her active skill will also fill the board fire skyfall. So yeah, very nice pairing. Not nearly as strong as the previous ones but still absolutely capable. She has less cross power, at only x2.5 per cross (x8.75 paired with Karin), but that's the same as Allatu in the Allatu X Planar pairing, and I can tell from experience that it's already plenty :>
      Be prepared though because it'll feel weird again, because the synergy is imperfect. Focus on fire crosses first !
    • Reincarnated Seraph Lucifer
      A weird pairing at first glance, until you remember that REvo Seraph Luci is a Paimon in essence, but with this nice advantage of being able to make 3 types of crosses (dark, light, heart) instead of two (light, heart). Outside of that they are basically identical in how they work.
      REvo Seraph Luci gets x4 and 50% shield for matching a heart cross, and x3 for each light or dark cross. He's also bind immune and brings 1.5 secs of matching time so it's basically a better Paimon. Only major differences are :
      → his active skill doesn't benefit nearly as much to Karin as Paimon's, as REvo Luci spawns dark and Karin can't use them. However the hearts can act either as a FUA or a board fix to get a heart-cross in there.
      → He has significantly less HP. And that is a pretty big deal for Karin.
      Now none of that makes him a bad pairing though. It's arguably a better pairing than Karin X Paimon.
      Though, similarly to Paimon, Base Karin and Diara, it will feel weird to play because of the strange synergy. You need to focus on light crosses, not much good will come out of fire and dark crosses.
    • Alex (from this SF collab)
      Another questionable pairing. He might only be a 5* pull with mediocre stats, and he might not have the strongest LS since he lacks a non-cross ATK mult, but one shouldn't overlook the defensive value he brings to Karin by having a x2 HP mult, and the consistency/comfort in use that comes with a +3 secs TE boost baked in its LS (invaluable in 7x6 crosses).
      x2 HP makes you go from 40k to 80k, which is a huge added value when you have a RCV boost to keep you at high HP values.
      Karin does not need too much power because she brings plenty by herself so it's not too bad to not have an amazing offensive LS. He still has x3.5 ATK per cross, that's still huge in 7x6.
      Thanks @Noc for pointing it out !
    • Nemain (not fully affected by Karin's LS)
      To be fair, while she technically is compatible with Karin, I would strongly advise against pairing with her if you have anything else that is also compatible with Karin.
      Nemain does work : her LS needs you to match fire, wood or light crosses and you get x2.5 per each, which is decent, and you also get x5 for making 5 combos (which should be a given in a 7x6 board).
      The thing is she brings nothing to Karin ; Nemain is a glass cannon type of lead and a bad one at this. Her stats are abysmal (400 weighter → only 3k HP, literally no ATK), her LS doesn't do anything about Karin's problems and neither of her awakenings nor active skill is any useful to Karin. And to top it all, she doesn't even attack with the same attributes you'll cross, so in the end her unique contribution to the team is that she takes the leader slot.
      We'll have to see how she works with her upcoming evo(s), but really if you can not play her, don't play her.
      Still, thanks to @Orange for pointing that out !

    4 - Skill assist and equip evos

    There are a bunch of things you might want to have inherited in your team. It will obviously depend on what subs you're bringing and if your team has a specific design (maybe a system, or hazard resistance, or a lot of shields, whatever) so just pick see what can be useful to your team. Here are some nice tools to use if you have them.
    • Rathios equip (Dragonbound/Dragoncaller REM)
      Probably the single best assist evo you can inherit on Karin. It has literately everything Karin needs :
      → Additional stats because its light
      → +500 HP through awakening
      → Active skill that guarantees 2 crosses (one light and one fire)
      → Built-in 3-turns 30% shield (same as Enoch !)
      → A finger (+0.5secs)
      There's like zero thing that Karin needs and Rathios Equip doesn't help with. Absolutely use it if you have one.
    • Karin equip (Street Fighter Collab)
      Luxury equip, but if you happen to have 2 Karins that is by far the best of use of your dupe (there are so many Karin players, you don't need to use your dupe as a helper (yet)).
      The value brought by this equip shouldn't be overlooked. First and foremost, it addresses cloud resistance and that in itself is a pretty big deal. Then there are the supportive awakenings :
      → Any Team HP+ you can get in there has a noticeable positive impact on your HP, it's always good to have some.
      → The Team RCV+ is very forgettable but might be useful in these situations were you have a RCV debuff.
      → +500 HP from the last awakening is a pretty big deal, when Karin herself is so fragile. Any HP you can get in this team has big value :>
    • Shirou equip (Fate collab)
      Not only it helps addressing blind and jammers (the 2 hazards you actually want to resist), but it also brings a precious additional finger. You might not necessarily want to have the AS come up, though it's absolutely something that you can use, maybe in a VDP situation.
    • Odysseus equip (MP Shop)
      Nice to have on any bind immune card since it clears awoken binds, and makes a board Karin can use. But most importantly the all hazards resist and additional finger are what makes it great.
      The equip itself has nice HP so if you can inherit it on a light card you get even more value ~
    • Enoch (farmable)
      Get yourself at least one Enoch inherited on one of your sub. Enoch is too good. She grants 3 turns of 30% shield and 3 turns of 1.5x TE buff. And it's pretty fast, at only 7 turns of CD. Honestly she's so good she can be your only shield if you find good spots to stall for it to be up when it's not.
    • Glavenus equip (Monster Hunter Collab)
      It has the precious tape resistance which automatically makes it great to have, but it also makes a column of fire that is not stuck to the side, which is extremely convenient because you can make a cross in the blink of an eye with such positioning.
    • Edward equip (Full Metal Alchemist Collab)
      Kinda luxury equip, since Edward himself is a nice option to sub in your team. However I think the equip itself has great value because it has nice stats, a long active skill that should give you plenty of control to not let it come up if you don't want to. But most importantly the combination of Team HP+ awakening and HP+ awakening will have a noticeable effect on your team HP.
    • Alphonse equip (Full Metal Alchemist Collab)
      I wouldn't recommend turning such a great Karin sub into a weapon, unless you have a dupe. Maybe.
      However if you chooses to you would end up with probably the best triple blind resist equip for Karin. With its nice shield and the HP+ awakening, it can absolutely be useful to Karin.
    • Roy equip (Full Metal Alchemist Collab)
      I'm still not sure I would recommend turning a 2sec sub with 60% blind resist into an equip, but since he's not fully compatible with Karin.... why not.
      What makes this equip is the combination of both cloud resistance and L-Unlock, which are both situational, but these are two features that you do want in your team. Roy has both in one pack, alongside a strong fire making active skill, that is especially good if you're pairing with Diara (since she wants fire crosses).
      Still not sure I would recommend it though, but if you end up doing that it is crucial that you slap this equip onto a card that has a sub-attribute that is note fire or light : you almost never want to make a light or fire L-unlock. If you can make a light or fire L that means you can make a cross and you should try to do that instead, or save these orbs for the next floor.
      Avoid making light/fire L at all cost.
    • Puu equip (Yu Yu Hakusho collab)
      I highly recommend to try to get at least one Puu, as Karin absolutely can make good use of a card that doubles her matching time and brings a precious 75% shield, alongside increasing the team's HP by 500. Excellent equip evo that will save your day in higher challenges more than once.

    5 - General advice

    • She has access to SA ; I strongly recommend getting the super finger one. She doesn't really need a 3rd skill boost (though it's always useful), and she absolutely doesn't need more firepower :9
    • Tbh both HP++ badge and TE 2secs badge bring equal value to Karin. Pick what suits you the most, I can't recommend one more than the other.
    • I don't want to sound like a broken record but since addressing HP is so important to her, you should consider slapping HP++ latent awakenings on all your big HP subs. Hexazeon, Xmas Ilmina, Alphonse, Amen, etc... anything that has 6k HP or more are great candidates to receive HP++ latents !
    • On the other hand I can't think of a single set of latents that would be useful to Karin herself. She absolutely doesn't need more firepower so I don't think killers or ATK++ are necessary (go for it if you wish so though), she already has plenty of RCV so I'm not too sure about given RCV++ awakenings (though she'll be a great RCV stick if you do that), she absolutely doesn't have any relevant HP so HP++ would be straight up wasted. TE latents are just bad I think. And her AS is great but not so critical that you would want full SDR.
      I went with full rainbow resist to address 100% gravities + a single SDR but tbh I don't really know what else would be good.
    • Depending on what pairing you play, covering jammer and blind resistance could be a great idea. Poison not so much (except for spawns such as beelzebub or Hamal ofc) since she has a good ability to recover. But you want jammer resistance to resist these freakin bombs omg why do these exist. Blind resist is not super mandatory but it'll make your life easier because while you can handle it when matching combos or TPAs, matching crosses with hard blind really sucks (or at least, I suck at it :9).
      This even more so important if you play Ult Karin paired with herself, as she doesn't have a lot of features to help her survive.
    • Absolutely get yourself a tape resist. It's not nearly as much an issue in 7x6 than in 6x5, but tape can still ruin your day when coupled with other hazards.
    • In general I would say bi-color cross leads are quite suited for a "stall and hit" playstyle, where you wait for your board to have 5 of your colors, then obliterate stuff with double crosses (it doesn't apply nearly as much with mono-color crosses since these leads can dish out much more damage with a single cross (→ less stalling)).
      Be careful with that when playing Karin since she's fragile. Hopefully you shouldn't need too much stalling since most natural 7x6 board should have enough stuff to double cross.
      Stalling starts being really pretty safe at about 51k+ HP, because most non-rage attacks/execution will usually hit below that (obviously you should fear enhances like the plague). I'm at 55k, It's pretty comfy.
    • Now with that said, if you do reach a comfortable amount of HP stalling becomes extremely easy and convenient because Karin herself is a RCV stick, and her leader skill grants a RCV boost that will virtually prevent her from dying to anything that isn't a one shot. She's that type of lead.
    • There aren't a lot of "unlock orbs" subs very good for Karin, so try to get an L-Unlock awakening in there to remove the locks and skyfall lock debuffs.
    • There's one thing Evo'd Karin is absolutely fantastic for, and that is Training Arena. With her consistent devastating damage she obliterates this dungeon with a remarkable consistency. Success rate is almost 100% for me so far, and I actually do hit damage cap at least twice a run.


    Aaaaaaaaaaaaand I think that's it. That's all I could think of.
    Feel free to tell me about stuff I got wrong or forgot.

    I'll add to this post once I have played her a bit ~

    And yes, I had too much free time today :9
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019 at 3:44 PM
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  2. Noc

    Noc Active Member

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    This is awesome! I imagine you're going to trade for Karin regardless of what happens, so you should convert this into a guide for her :) As for pairings, have you considered Alex from Street fighter (http://puzzledragonx.com/en/monster.asp?n=5110)? He adds 3 seconds of movement time, 2x hp, and 3.5x attack per light cross. Alex would compensate for a lack of move-time and add some beefiness (about 5k hp with plus eggs). And, as you've said, light already has plenty of high RCV subs plus Karin brings an RCV multiplier. Since you have a giant board and activation would be straight forward, Rin might be a decent option as well. She'll bring two shields, another copy of her active, and a high attack multiplier (maybe not so high by Karin standards).
     
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  3. bp1976

    bp1976 Pittsburgh, PA Born and Raised

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    I might give her a shot since I rolled five of her. You forgot Xmas Ilmina as a sub, she is probably the absolute best sub you can get for this team. 3 TE, 2 Team HP which you desperately need, and VDP in case you need it. Plus her stats are literally bonkers and her active is perfect.
     
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  4. YamaKyu

    YamaKyu Karin Kanzuki was a mistake. And I love it ♥

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    I'm 100% guilty of having been blinded by Karin's leader skill and forgetting that Alex can also absolutely get the work done.
    As for Rin now that you mention it she might not be optimal but she's definitely a nice defensive option if you don't have better. Karin's power output is not a problem anyway so yeah, definitely worth giving her a try !
    I'll add them to the list,

    EDIT : Also yes, I'm pulling/trading for her, except if somehow one of the stream announcements are so incredible for crosses that I need to keep my stones. And that might be the case, we have Allatu waiting for her ult, Paimon and Dantalion waiting for their Mega Awoken evo, Mega Awoken Skuld right around the corner (I want to believe she'll be a cross lead as well) and maybe some more stuff o/
    But as soon as the stream ends I'll nuke my stones yeah :'9

    I'm baffled that she flew below my radar while she's basically the number one thing Karin needs. Thanks for pointing it out !
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  5. Orange

    Orange Red+Yellow = Orange

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    I pair with Kenshin. Seemed to be stable run on A2. I also tested Multi play A3. I can match at least one cross in most turn. Fun play. But it did seem to be popular leader. Only one or two use her as main leader on my friend list.
     
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  6. YamaKyu

    YamaKyu Karin Kanzuki was a mistake. And I love it ♥

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    If you play her please add me, I'm borderline desperate to get friends with her :')

    Will post my impressions after playing her a bit more

    EDIT : Added Amen to the list. No idea how I forgot about him tbh
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  7. Orange

    Orange Red+Yellow = Orange

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    Sure. Invitation sent. Kenshin is on my second slot.
     
  8. YamaKyu

    YamaKyu Karin Kanzuki was a mistake. And I love it ♥

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    I'll post my full impressions soon-ish when I have more time, but so far I'm having a blast. I reached 52k HP without badge so her HP issue can definitely be fixed.

    I'll add 2 things to the main post :

    > Rathios equip is probably the single best assist evo you can inherit on Karin. It has literately everything Karin needs :
    → Additional stats because its light
    → +500 HP through awakening
    → Active skill that guarantees 2 crosses (one light and one fire)
    → Built-in 3-turns 35% shield (same as Enoch !)
    → A finger (+0.5secs)
    There's like zero thing that Karin needs and Rathios Equip doesn't help with. Absolutely use it if you have one.

    > I have yet to play her yet more, but there's one thing Evo'd Karin is absolutely fantastic for, and that is Training Arena. With her consistent devasting damage she obliterates this dungeon with a remarkable consistency. Success rate is about 85% so far, and I actually do hit damage cap at least twice a run.
     
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  9. CloudnineXXX

    CloudnineXXX Well-Known Member

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    Who do you pair with?
     
  10. YamaKyu

    YamaKyu Karin Kanzuki was a mistake. And I love it ♥

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    Ah yes, very important matter indeed.
    I've played mostly Evo'd Karin paired with herself actually ! A bit of Kenshin (felt great) and REvo Luci (didn't felt too great, it's good but it needs a lot of getting used to). But tbh I mostly play Karin paired with herself and damage cap my way through victory
     
  11. Tetedeiench

    Tetedeiench Active Member

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    I was looking for an explosive damage leader for training arena, seems like i found one :) I got two copies of her.

    The team i'm looking forward to build is Karin / NY yomi / Christmas floof / carry / carry / Karin . Should be able to farm this arena consistently .

    I think you should include Zinogre in your list. 3 time extends, a fujin active, and beefy HP ( around 6K without plusses).

    As i don't have any Karin friends, i'm wondering if i should :
    * Use a base karin as a helper
    * Use my kenshin and make my second karin an equip for the cloud resist
    * Evo my second Karin

    Any advice ?
     
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  12. YamaKyu

    YamaKyu Karin Kanzuki was a mistake. And I love it ♥

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    If it's only for training arena you can't go wrong with a Kenshin or evo'd Karin pairing.

    For harder content it's a bit trickier as base Karin ha substantially more sustainability, and I've not played a wide enough variety of pairings in a wide enough variety of dungeons to really be sure.

    On the other hand, Karin assist definitely looks amazing so yeah, the choice is tough.
     
  13. Orange

    Orange Red+Yellow = Orange

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    I got Tethys. Very interesting leader with cross Fire, Light or Wood. But leader itself is blue/dark. I did not understand why. Output damage when pairing with Karin could reach max (2,147,xxx,xxx) which was the same as my Kenshin/Karin. However, a bit hard to play when need 5combos+cross.

    B4205339-1BAF-435E-BA74-B1537358598D.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  14. Tetedeiench

    Tetedeiench Active Member

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    Alright, gave the team a shot, invested a tad in Karin ( max level, Time extend+ SA), and boy was i impressed. The days where i played with myr must have become muscle memory, because i was crossing easily.

    I tried a janky team made of Karin (rathios) / NY Yomi / Christmas Floof / Zinogre / Lx Paimon / Kenshin , and for the first time i damage capped all my cards using floof's active.

    This team will be for giggles and such, but boy is it fun to play and a change of the regular Dmeta / Lvalk / Ryu playstyle.

    Thanks a bunch @YamaKyu , you made me realize i had something real fun to do with my box :D
     
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  15. ambiguous57

    ambiguous57 Well-Known Member

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    Awesome recommendation, glad you pointed this out. I only ever used Rathios for the light row equip back when I would run Yog in that 3P dungeon, and then again on Yog for some recent ranking dungeon. I couldn’t have even told you what the active skill does. The entire package is perfect, though.

    The irony is that now the only thing I’m *not* using is for was originally the only thing I was using it for.
     
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  16. YamaKyu

    YamaKyu Karin Kanzuki was a mistake. And I love it ♥

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    Yo, I've been busy these days (playing Zelda BOTW *cough*) but I finally added him to the list ! Thanks for pointing that out, I totally forgot about him. I can't wait to see how much HP he'll get with its upcoming limit break/buff (since MH is coming back soonish).

    That's Nemain o/
    And while she technically works, I stongly advise against pairing with her, for reasons that are made clearer by your screencap : she doesn't bring any contribution to the team.
    → She has abysmal stats (only 3k HP, almost literally no ATK)
    → She pretty much doesn't contributes to damage because her attributes doesn't match the attribute of her crosses. Which is weird af. I was pretty mad at her release tbh xD
    → Her awakenings and active skill bring nothing that Karin needs.

    The idea is that Karin is a good pairing for Nemain, but Nemain is pretty awful for Karin.

    I added her to the list nonetheless, because she might just be one of the easiest """"Karin pairing"""" to get from the REM (alongside Rebel Serpah Luci).

    I'm glad to help o/ Have fun with your new goddess of annihilation !

    I don't even know if GungHo's designers had a specific idea in mind when they made Rathios equip, because tbh it's such a perfect tool for Karin but at the same time I don't think they plan this much ahead, do they ? Could it be just a coincidence, I genuinely wonder x)
    But it only shows how great and flexible the equip evo feature is ~ Truely a blessing for team building enthusiasts ~


    When I have more time today I'll look into awoken bind recover subs. I have a few ideas (and notably Sakura Matou) but I need to expand the guide with that ~
     
  17. YamaKyu

    YamaKyu Karin Kanzuki was a mistake. And I love it ♥

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    I just beat C10 with double Karin today o/

    I tried Karin X Kenshin first, but couldn't really make it to the end because the dungeon has a 50%RCV debuff which hurts a bit.
    Karin X Karin on the other hand blasted through it like butter. And I reached 56k HP because I put Halloween Myne in there for her cloud resist.
    56k HP is even more than the HP I get when I play Planar X Planar (the twist being that Planar herself can reach about 12k HP or so :'D).

    But back to C10 ! It was actually the reason why I wanted to review awoken bind recover subs aaaaaaand it turns out Odindra really is your best bet I think. However, another notable option is Sakura Matou from Fate collab, which is not nearly as good as Odindra in every single matter. But she does bring a tape resist. And this shouldn't be overlooked, as tape can hurt crosses very bad. But the thing is Sakura isn't fully affected by Karin's LS, so she's very questionable.

    I'll add her to the list tomorrow, not sure if I recommend her, but if you have her she's definitely an option.
    If you have any other ideas, feel free to share, but tbh I think Odindra is just what we need.

    Don't forget to address tape resist with either a SA or an equip evo though
     
  18. Noc

    Noc Active Member

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    My alt rolled a second Karin today, so I'm definitely a lot more excited about UEVO Karin now. I made the equip with one of them for cloud resist, and I'm going to evolve the other one to UEVO Karin soon.

    My focus so far has been to get better at making crosses again. To give you an idea, last time I played a cross lead Ronove (before his UEVOs) was near the top of the tier list and I've never played a multi-cross lead. I'm not the fastest at manipulating orbs as it is, so making crosses, which I'm unpracticed at, combined with my usual speed of movement is pretty bad. So far I've been practicing making crosses with a base Karin X base karin team for the extra time, but I think I'm going to go base Karin X UEVO Karin soon for the 7x6 and fire crosses. My initial teams included cards like Apollo and Ars Nova for a fast orb changer and skyfall active because, as you can probably guess, I also have little experience with non-rainbow 7x6 leads. And I've shifted toward a more TE and utility focused set-up including Revo Raph, Indra, etc. Some further thoughts about teambuilding. I was actually super pleased with Saria's board, which is great as an assist. Her hp further increases her value as an assist and also makes her a passable sub. Another sub I'm excited about is Mega Ilm: nice board change, two VDPs, 3 SB, dragon killer, unbindable, and the devil boost in his active will be great for enhancing VDP boards. @YamaKyu I'll let you know when I have UEVO Karin up on my alt.
     
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  19. YamaKyu

    YamaKyu Karin Kanzuki was a mistake. And I love it ♥

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    Sure o/
    Btw if you want to practice on easier dungeons feel free to pair with Bride Rushana (light/wood/water crosses) or Allatu (fire/dark/water crosses) : they're not nearly as strong as Karin but they have a built-in +5 secs of matching time in their LS. It might help you a bit o/
     
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  20. Tetedeiench

    Tetedeiench Active Member

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    For awoken bind clear, don't forget NY Yomi. Her recent buff made her clear 3 turns of awoken bind. It might be enough for some floors. Odindra is indeed your best bet if you need more.
     
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